Virginia Now Non Disclosure State

[Sylvia Setash]

hmmmm, Michele McQuigg was a realtor before she went into politics -

 

[Brian Weaver]

Non-disclosure states:
Alaska
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
New Mexico
North Dakota
Texas
Utah
and now Virginia
Wyoming

 

[Marcia Langley]

Terrel,

We are totally dependent on MLS for sold prices and totally dependent on verification phone calls for concession information.

I think agents are compelled to be accurate on the sales prices they put into MLS and luckily, in my area, the MLS has abundent sales.

FSBOs are a nonstarter as comps, you might get info on one but never on every one or even a handfull in a neighborhood.

Some areas, out on the fringe of our MLS serving area have scant MLS data because the sales agents don't join the MLS. We mostly have to leave the appraising to local guys in those areas. They have to schmooze the local agents and the local assessors to get the data through what is really an illegal means. I'm sure they also interview buyers and sellers and get good data but you'd really have to live there to do what they do.

--------

I looked in to joining some neighboring MLSs so I could appraise in those fringe areas but found that there is not a real broad overlap of coverage. There is sort of a no man's land in between where agents don't join the MLS and people are closed mouth with outsiders.

The cost in time of data collection makes it a very unprofitable area.

 

[BRCJR]

I sold a house on July 17, 2007, in Virginia, and the consideration is properly stated in the deed.

 

[BRCJR]

Post # 1 states----If the sale price is lower than either the sale price or assessed value no record of the sale price will be available. ............
QUOTE]

I am confused--how can the sale price be lower than the sale price?

 

[Austin]

Post # 1 states----If the sale price is lower than either the sale price or assessed value no record of the sale price will be available. ............
QUOTE]

I am confused--how can the sale price be lower than the sale price?

I mis spoke Bill. Good point, I edited that out. Senior moment. It happens a lot lately.:new_sleeping:

 

[Austin]

11.Other comments: Current Lave

The recordation taxes consist of several taxes imposed upon the recordation of deeds, deeds of trust. leases and contracts relating to real estate. In most cases the tax rate is applied to the greater of consideration or actual value. In 1968 Congress repealed the federal documentary stamp tax and the General Assembly added another recordation tax that was based on the former stamp tax. Unlike the other recordation taxes, this tax was is specifically imposed on the grantor. and is often called the "Grantors' Tax."
The language of the grantors' tax. which tracked the repealed federal law, did not specify that the rate applied to "the greater of consideration or actual value. Therefore, the provision has been interpreted since 1968 as applying the tax rate to the actual value only if the consideration cannot be ascertained.
Proposed Change
This bill would amend the Grantor's tax to conform its base to the same base as the other recordation taxes by providing that the rate of tax is imposed upon the greater of the consideration paid or the value of the interest.

Here is the section from the impact statement of the bill posted prior to passage. The language is confusing because it apparently calls actual value the tax assessment by my reading. The unintended consequence is turning Virginia into a non-disclosure state based on the language I highlighted and underlined.
All Virginia appraisers should be concerned with this for a number of reasons the least of which are: no sale datum other than office files or MLS sales; no sale histories possible meaning no GSE, FHA, or VA due to no sale histories or datum; no value trending possible; in general making appraising impossible in Virginia, while at the same time creating an environment for property flipping. This is totally insane.
​

 

[xm72mhd]

Here is the section from the impact statement of the bill posted prior to passage. The language is confusing because it apparently calls actual value the tax assessment by my reading. The unintended consequence is turning Virginia into a non-disclosure state based on the language I highlighted and underlined.
All Virginia appraisers should be concerned with this for a number of reasons the least of which are: no sale datum other than office files or MLS sales; no sale histories possible meaning no GSE, FHA, or VA due to no sale histories or datum; no value trending possible; in general making appraising impossible in Virginia, while at the same time creating an environment for property flipping. This is totally insane.​

I guess I'll go with your chracterization of this legislation, but it also seems that, at least with respect to the transaction tax that is based on the sales price, the tax base can no longer decline unless the assessor decreases the value and the consideration decreases. So, with regrad to available public data in Virginia real property values can no longer decline.

Does anybody else see what I think I see. This sounds like a tax revenue bill to me.

 

[Ken B]

NOTICE TO ALL VIRGINIA APPRAISERS: VIRGINIA IS NOW IN EFFECT A NON DISCLOSURE STATE.

There is a new law in Virginia effective July 1, 2007, under which the sale price or consideration will not be given in most cases. This was H 2059.

Here is what the tax assessor and clerk of court just told me:

Under the bill the clerk of court will no longer report the actual consideration in most cases. Instead they report it this way: If the sale price is higher than the assessment then that number will be reported. If the sale price is lower than the assessed value the tax assessment will be reported. If the sale price is lower than either the assessed value no record of the sale price will be available. In other words, if prices go down no one will notice.

The tax assessor is in a state of shock. They are required by law to maintain a ratio of assessed value vs actual sale prices. Presently assessments are higher in most cases than sale prices so in essence they can't comply with state law. No data is reliable unless the sale price is inflated. No longer can we go to the clerks office and find the consideration. The procedure is to take the number off the deed on which the tax was paid and compare it to the tax assessment. If the number is higher that is the actual consideration. If it matches the tax assessment then you know the price was lower but that is all you know. In other words, Virginia is now a non disclosure state. Five will get you ten I can tell you who is behind this. I strongly suspect I can name the person behind this and I strongly suspect his motive was to circumvent AVM.

The chief patrons of the bill were Michele B. McQuigg chief and Terry G. Kilgore.
So good bye sale histories.

PS: Another new law in Virginia. If a minor or incompetent person has a court appointed gaurdian, they cannot sell real estate without using a licensed professional spelled R-E-A-L-T-O-R! I think they call this rent seeking in Washington.

Well, they just codified a practice that was common in the early 90's, which is the last time the market took a downturn. Took us awhile to figure out that the Commissioner of the Revenue in one of the counties we worked would not record prices less than assessment in the tax records back then. If the sales price was lower, the assessed value was reported as the transfer price. Borderline tax fraud if you ask me. Now it is just legal. Noticed last year that many "high-end" properties were selling for substantially less than assessed value. Our dear government just couldn't let all that revenue go away now, could it?

 

[Non Sequitur]

Non-disclosure states:
Alaska
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
New Mexico
North Dakota
Texas
Utah
and now Virginia
Wyoming

Given all of our faults, non-disclosure isn't one of them. Every deed I pull has a complete appearance clause and consideration.