Welp...Have Decided To End It

[Mark K]

If they were serious about continuing education and USPAP, they would not permit it to be taken online. If nothing else you used to get some good back-and-forth between other appraisers in class.

I'd slit my wrists before I'd willingly sit in a class with a bunch of appraisers that love nothing more than to describe their recent war stories that exposes how little they actually know about the profession.

 

[chad hampton]

I'd slit my wrists before I'd willingly sit in a class with a bunch of appraisers that love nothing more than to describe their recent war stories that exposes how little they actually know about the profession.

I absolutely get it’s a hardship. And that we’ve basically eliminated every barrier of entry hardship there is in this profession except for that check writing part - cant eliminate that!! All I was saying is if any qualification or standards board were interested in being serious, they would require a little bit of classroom CE.

North Carolina used to require 14 hours of in person CE. I was sitting in the rooms when the board (and “stakeholders”) were debating whether or not to eliminate it. I’ll let you take a wild guess at who wanted to eliminate it. And you can also guess on whether it passed or not.

I will give you a hint, the usual suspects got their way.

 

[Zoe]

After having been a certified General appraiser for nearly 35 years, and in appraising for nearly 40, I have decided to let my certification lapse.

I have not performed any appraisal services in several years and guess I have kept the certification due to the work I put in to obtain it and as a fall back position. I have been primarily active in brokerage during this time. I have not had the appraisal software in a while either.

I came about this decision when looking at the cost of the 7 hr. USPAP course ($249) and the annual cert renewal ($200) and figuring between that and next years cost to get the additional 21 hrs. ($450) and renewal ($200) I would be in for about $1,100.

Reading NC certification law it looks like I would have a year if I decided(not likely) to "catch up" on CE & fees and reactivate it.

Guess I should have done it several years ago.

I can't blame you. It sounds like you are pretty good real estate agent/broker. If you get one sale a year, you will do alright. I don't know if you are independent agent/broker or you are affiliated with a larger broker, but that is option too where you might even get referrals from the main broker office. Memphis is home to Crye-Leike and they are one of largest brokers in the nation. They do a ton of commercial and a bunch of residential. Many affiliated agents. They cover several states and you probably have a large broker near you.

 

[Essexfenwick]

Yep. I was in a Zoom meeting last week and during the introductions one of the appraisers detail how she’s also licensed as an attorney in three states, she stated it’s cheaper to maintain those licenses than the one appraiser certification she has. The bloodsucking in our industry isn’t just the AMC‘s.

Lawyers make the rules and run the government. They exempt themselves. Guarantee they pass a law that AI can't practice law and they will use AI to the max to do nothing and collect cash.

 

[Essexfenwick]

It’s extortion at this point. Cut a few groups a check and we’ll let you keep your license and ability to feed your family.

Mob and govt aren’t much different.

If they were serious about continuing education and USPAP, they would not permit it to be taken online. If nothing else you used to get some good back-and-forth between other appraisers in class.

The government is the Mob only it actually works less. Instead of running the drug, alcohol,guns, weed, and gambling business...it legalizes and extorts the profits. It extorts all businesses with the threat of force. The government is a sloppy, slovenly and somewhat stinky version of the Mob and it can't even dress sharp or cook a decent Italian meal. The only thing the mob has left is prostitution and the government will at some point legalize, extort and charge fees for that for sure.

 

[George Hatch]

I always thought it was a mistake to increase the CE requirements to 14hrs/year. With that said, if an individual spent years at an occupation without ever re-visiting some of the material they probably would lose touch with some of the fundamentals. It's super common for people to connect some of those dots only after repeated exposure to the appraisal problem and repeated passes through the instruction. Often explained from different directions.

The ongoing discourse on this and other online groups contributes to people getting a little out of their insular silo and considering different angles. It's arguably another form of CE.

Being competent isn't about knowing everything from the outset, but about how to think your way through the new-to-you situations which will arise out in the wild. That's where prior exposure to different applications and problems can become useful even if your current problem isn't the same as what those other inputs have demonstrated.

 

[RCA]

The question is to what extent a CMA can be used in court to attack an appraisal. I have seen this. And it is interesting. So, here we go again, I have to consult my "girlfriend" as I don't have time otherwise:

Me: I have seen in court where a judge gives more weight to a CMA than an appraisal in a lawsuit.

Grok: "Your observation regarding a judge assigning greater weight to a Comparative Market Analysis (CMA) than to a formal appraisal in a lawsuit is noteworthy, though it represents an exceptional circumstance rather than the prevailing norm in U.S. courts, including those in California.

In most jurisdictions, including California family law, probate, partition, and other civil proceedings involving real property valuation, courts generally afford substantially greater evidentiary weight to a formal appraisal prepared by a licensed or certified real estate appraiser. This preference stems from several key factors:

• Appraisals adhere to the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP), ensuring a standardized, independent, and disinterested methodology.
• They are performed by credentialed professionals subject to state regulation and ethical oversight.
• They incorporate comprehensive analysis, including the sales comparison approach (with detailed adjustments), cost approach (where applicable), income approach (for investment properties), and supporting market data, often with interior/exterior inspections.
• Courts view them as more reliable and defensible for establishing fair market value in contested matters, such as divorce property division, probate inventory, partition actions, eminent domain, or tax assessment appeals.

By contrast, a CMA—typically prepared by a licensed real estate broker or agent—is considered an informal market estimate intended primarily for listing or marketing purposes. It lacks USPAP compliance, may reflect the preparer's interest in a potential transaction, and is often viewed as less rigorous or objective. Legal commentary and practitioner guidance consistently indicate that appraisals carry superior credibility in formal proceedings.

Circumstances Where a CMA May Receive Greater Weight​

While rare, a judge may accord more weight to a CMA (or find it more persuasive) under specific, fact-driven conditions, such as:

• The appraisal is flawed or discredited: If cross-examination reveals methodological errors, inadequate comparables, unsupported adjustments, bias, lack of interior access, outdated data, or failure to consider unique property characteristics, the court may discount or reject the appraisal entirely. In such cases, a well-documented CMA—supported by recent, verifiable comparable sales, photographs, condition notes, and testimony from an experienced broker—can serve as more credible alternative evidence.
• Stipulation or agreement by parties: When both litigants (or their counsel) agree to rely on a CMA for efficiency or cost reasons (e.g., in uncontested or low-equity divorce matters), courts may accept it without requiring a formal appraisal.
• Limited evidence or procedural constraints: In scenarios where a full appraisal is impractical (e.g., denied interior access in partition actions, as noted in some North Carolina guidance), or where the CMA is the only market-based evidence presented, a judge may find it sufficient or preferable.
• The CMA preparer demonstrates superior local expertise: A highly experienced broker with deep knowledge of a hyper-local market (e.g., specific neighborhoods in Pacifica or coastal California) may provide testimony that the judge finds more attuned to current buyer behavior than a generalist appraiser's report.
• Judicial discretion in weighing evidence: Judges have broad latitude to evaluate the credibility of witnesses and evidence. If the CMA is presented effectively (e.g., through live testimony, detailed supporting documentation, and cross-examination of the opposing appraiser), it can influence the outcome in isolated instances.

Published legal discussions, attorney forums, and family law resources (including those addressing California divorce and probate contexts) overwhelmingly describe appraisals as the preferred and more persuasive standard in contested valuations. Instances where a CMA prevails appear anecdotal and context-specific rather than indicative of a broader trend.

If the case you observed involved California proceedings (e.g., family court for divorce or superior court for probate/partition), the outcome likely turned on case-specific defects in the appraisal or strengths in the CMA's presentation. Should you have additional details about the matter—such as the type of lawsuit, jurisdiction, or reasons articulated by the judge—I can offer a more targeted analysis of the applicable principles. In general, however, for any valuation intended for potential litigation, a USPAP-compliant appraisal from a licensed professional remains the most reliable and widely accepted form of evidence."

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In my opinion, we haven't really reached this point yet, generally speaking. But, it seems to be approaching for residential property - closer and closer. As for commercial, you need an appraiser's license for sure.

 

[nauthead]

Appraising is probably the only profession where the current regulators are lowering the barriers and making entry into the field easier while simultaneously making it more difficult to remain in the profession. It’s akin to stocking a pond and then draining the water.

 

[RCA]

All that being said:

1. If you were to look at the commercial appraisals done before 2007, with their 10+ year projections of income in Argus to arrive and some NPV, you would have to conclude they were highly inaccurate. And that hasn't changed much, as far as I know (I am not up to date, though).

2. If you want to do highly advanced earth+ glmnet regression for residential, where different appraisers, competent appraisers independently appraise the same property and come within 1% of each other, ... you would probably find it next to impossible to find such an appraiser anywhere in the world, out of over 8B people who have such competence. Claude, who should know better than anyone else, says you could count them on your fingers, - for sure.