What date do you use as the sale date?

[Carnivore]

Greg,

Carney notes a requirement in NC but then Rex tells us that it is not required but does set the prioroity of the liens- and yes I have seen that before.

Brad

Brad,

Mr Rex is incorrect in his statment. NC and SC are the same. See Larrys from Florence SC below.

Far as liens go, this would mean your bank is out a lot of money. The good news is that attornies in NC/SC dont disperse money until the deed and eed of trust are recorded.

SC is a "race notice" state...which means you can sell your property 5000 times a day, but whoever gets to the courthouse with their documents first is the owner.

The only recourse the other 4999 people would have is against the seller; the new owner of the property is protected.

The order they signed the contract would mean nothing here. So long as you were the first to record the deed, you would have undisputed ownership. Even if you were buyer number 3489.

 

[Vermonter]

Our public records have a "closed" date and "recorded" date (the latter can vary depending on the town).
Always use "closed".

 

[Lawrence R.]

Brad,

Mr Rex is incorrect in his statement. NC and SC are the same. See Larrys from Florence SC below.

Far as liens go, this would mean your bank is out a lot of money. The good news is that attorneys in NC/SC don't disperse money until the deed and deed of trust are recorded.

That's not necessarily true, I thought you can have a "dry" closing in NC?...just not here in SC.

We're all wet, LOL. PS, you are a much better speller in my quote of you...

 

[Mike Kennedy]

If on November 15, 2007 I contracted to have a house built and it was finally completed on May 2, 2008...was closed on May 28, 2008 and recorded on June 16, 2008, what is the date of sale for purposes of market condition adjustments?

contract date 11/15/07 vs contract date of the comps

 

[Brad Ellis]

Carney,

Here you go- right from Wikipedia:

"In the USA, land registration is not required. Instead, there are laws that are commonly referred to as "recording acts." Each state in the USA has a different recording act. Generally speaking, however, recording acts come in three flavors, "race statutes," "notice statutes," and "race/notice statutes."

Race Statute - Whoever records first wins. Race statutes are extremely rare because most people agree that it is unfair to protect a person who had actual notice of a prior conveyance. Currently North Carolina is the only state that employs this method.
Notice Statute - A subsequent purchaser for value wins if, at the time of conveyance, that subsequent purchaser had no actual or constructive notice of the prior conveyance. In short, a subsequent bona fide purchaser (BFP) wins.

Race/Notice Statute - A subsequent purchaser for value wins if: (1) at the time of conveyance, that subsequent purchaser had no actual or constructive notice of the prior conveyance and (2) the subsequent purchaser records before the prior purchaser. In short, subsequent BFP's win only if they record before the prior purchaser.

Even though recording acts in the USA do not require recordation, they do create a strong incentive for recordation. At a minimum, recordation creates constructive notice to any subsequent purchasers that a prior conveyance occurred and therefore protects the prior purchaser in the event of a subsequent conveyance."

As I said- extremely rare and apart from NC, not at all an absolute requirement, although always highly recommended!

Brad

 

[Michigan CG]

For the sake of arguement..... Why do we need a closing (settlement) to take place at all to extract a value based on the negotiation in an arms length transaction where there was a meeting of the minds, and through extraordinary circumstances, never got to the closing table??

We would have all the elements present that would set a value. A contract setting a purchase price, maybe financing approval, due diligence performed by the buyer.. Maybe there's a death preventing a closing. Any number of things can prevent a closing.

I agree with that arguement. That (contract date)is the day of the meeting of the minds. I have used sales that have not closed because of unforseen circumstances.

 

[Mr Rex]

Carney,

Here you go- right from Wikipedia:

"In the USA, land registration is not required. Instead, there are laws that are commonly referred to as "recording acts." Each state in the USA has a different recording act. Generally speaking, however, recording acts come in three flavors, "race statutes," "notice statutes," and "race/notice statutes."

Race Statute - Whoever records first wins. Race statutes are extremely rare because most people agree that it is unfair to protect a person who had actual notice of a prior conveyance. Currently North Carolina is the only state that employs this method.
Notice Statute - A subsequent purchaser for value wins if, at the time of conveyance, that subsequent purchaser had no actual or constructive notice of the prior conveyance. In short, a subsequent bona fide purchaser (BFP) wins.

Race/Notice Statute - A subsequent purchaser for value wins if: (1) at the time of conveyance, that subsequent purchaser had no actual or constructive notice of the prior conveyance and (2) the subsequent purchaser records before the prior purchaser. In short, subsequent BFP's win only if they record before the prior purchaser.

Even though recording acts in the USA do not require recordation, they do create a strong incentive for recordation. At a minimum, recordation creates constructive notice to any subsequent purchasers that a prior conveyance occurred and therefore protects the prior purchaser in the event of a subsequent conveyance."

As I said- extremely rare and apart from NC, not at all an absolute requirement, although always highly recommended!

Brad

From "Modern Real Estate Practice In North Carolina": "Recordation is not esssential to make a document valid."

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

Arizona is "First in time (recorded date and time), is First Rights.

That means the first recording take precedence over signature date. Two deeds could be recorded for the same property, one signed Dec 1, 2007 and one signed June 1, 2008. The first one to be recorded is the one with the signature date of June 1, 2008. The one with the signature date of Dec 1, 2007 is recorded a week later. That one is out of luck, the new owner of the property is the one that recorded first. So date of recording is very important in Arizona and takes precedence over date of signatures.

 

[toddjw26]

In Georgia - date the property closed at the table with the owner getting keys.

Contract date is impossible to know for most comp props.

Closed and recorded dates are available in public record here.

Recording varies widely by counties. Some record within weeks and some take 3-5 months to show up. If I used a recorded date that was 5 months after the fact that takes into account nothing of what is going on in the market as of the recording date. Recording is also not mandatory although wise. I don't see how anyone could use a recording date in a rapidly changing market if there is a significant lag.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

One good thing about having an appraiser as president of the board of REALTORS® is having the data sheets appraiser friendly. My brother is a past president and we have another appraiser working through the chairs right now.

Our MLS sold sheets show the date of contract, date of closing, concessions paid, and days on the market...both for the current listing and continuous which includes any prior listings.

My sympathy goes out to those who work in areas that do not have good data. Also those who are in a non-disclosure state. As I have also said many times on this forum...we have one of the best assessor's office in the country. Just this month at our local appraiser's group meeting (CAREA.net) we had a panel of 6 county assessors. Those from other counties were amazed at organized El Paso county is when it comes to working with appraisers. Besides having a very good on-line presence, our assessor makes data available to appraisers via email so we don't have to drive downtown to get it. Easier for his representatives, takes less time, and frees up the counter for the general public.