What Is A Bedroom?

[Doug in NC]

Appraising a house that has an upstairs room labelled a "bedroom" by the real estate agent. Room has no closet and there is no access to a full bath on the second floor (room has only an adjacent half bath). Due to lack of access to a full bath and no closet, I don't believe the room qualifies as a bedroom. On another note, the entire second level is only accessible via a spiral staircase (maybe 3 feet in diameter) so it makes furnishing the second floor with mattresses for anything larger than a twin bed practically impossible. I doubt not having a 4th bedroom ( as the house was sold in the MLS) will have any measurable effect on the property value, but listing the house as having four bedrooms seems inappropriate for a real estate agent to do.

 

[timd354]

Appraising a house that has an upstairs room labelled a "bedroom" by the real estate agent. Room has no closet and there is no access to a full bath on the second floor (room has only an adjacent half bath). Due to lack of access to a full bath and no closet, I don't believe the room qualifies as a bedroom. On another note, the entire second level is only accessible via a spiral staircase (maybe 3 feet in diameter) so it makes furnishing the second floor with mattresses for anything larger than a twin bed practically impossible. I doubt not having a 4th bedroom ( as the house was sold in the MLS) will have any measurable effect on the property value, but listing the house as having four bedrooms seems inappropriate for a real estate agent to do.

OMG, the 'ol bedroom closet argument again....my favorite non-existent requirement that many people seem to think actually exists.

There is absolutely no requirement for a room to have a closet to be used as a sleeping area/bedroom. There is also no requirement for a bedroom to have access to a full bathroom on the same level, although depending on the market, the lack of a full bathroom on the same floor may be a functional obsolescence issue.

 

[Tom4value]

For FHA, you need 1. A closet. 2. Centrally heated. 3. A full-sized window to the exterior(for escape in case of a fire). 4. Must not be accessed to get to the rest of the house. The last one is debatable if it is a requirement or industry acceptable. There has never been a requirement that there has to be a bath on the floor. Here in New England, in older capes this is actually rare. The spiral staircase may be a functional issue.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

If it would likely be used as a bedroom, nothing wrong with calling it a bedroom. I would. I often label rooms like that a "flex" room. Den, bedroom, whatever. Then again, the 4th bedroom is not a thing around here as people tend to have smaller families today. Maybe your area is different.

 

[Doug in NC]

For FHA, you need 1. A closet. 2. Centrally heated. 3. A full-sized window to the exterior(for escape in case of a fire). 4. Must not be accessed to get to the rest of the house. The last one is debatable if it is a requirement or industry acceptable. There has never been a requirement that there has to be a bath on the floor. Here in New England, in older capes this is actually rare. The spiral staircase may be a functional issue.

Spiral staircase is definitely a functional issue, as are the lack of access to bath and no closet. All issues are atypical in my market area and will cause market resistance (less preferred), despite what they consider acceptable in states such as Maryland.

 

[timd354]

For FHA, you need 1. A closet. 2. Centrally heated. 3. A full-sized window to the exterior(for escape in case of a fire). 4. Must not be accessed to get to the rest of the house. The last one is debatable if it is a requirement or industry acceptable. There has never been a requirement that there has to be a bath on the floor. Here in New England, in older capes this is actually rare. The spiral staircase may be a functional issue.

Instead of making stuff up or repeating what you have been told by others who are also apparently uninformed, please cite the specific section of the FHA Single Family Policy Handbook or other current FHA guidance that states that a bedroom must have a closet and be "centrally" heated.

 

[Tom4value]

Instead of making stuff up or repeating what you have been told by others who are also apparently uninformed, please cite the specific section of the FHA Single Family Policy Handbook or other current FHA guidance that states that a bedroom must have a closet and be "centrally" heated.

Making stuff up?
Apparently you are not an FHA approved appraiser. If you are, you would know that it is a misleading accusation in that the HUD handbook 4000.1 only refers to bedrooms on page 501 "
v. Bedrooms
The Appraiser must not identify a room as a bedroom that cannot accommodate ingress or egress in the event of an emergency, regardless of location above or below grade.".
Read the rest and you will see that rooms need to be centrally heated. Though it does not specify closets, if you have done an FHA appraisal and called a room a "bedroom" you will have gotten an email from an underwriter. You know that not all requirements are specifically stated in the handbook but are generally required for FHA appraisals, hence the term "minimum" property standards.

Change your attitude, buddy!

 

[timd354]

Making stuff up?
Yes, you are either making stuff up or you mistakenly believe something that some other uniformed person told you.
Apparently you are not an FHA approved appraiser. If you are, you would know that it is a misleading accusation in that the HUD handbook 4000.1 only refers to bedrooms on page 501 "
v. Bedrooms
The Appraiser must not identify a room as a bedroom that cannot accommodate ingress or egress in the event of an emergency, regardless of location above or below grade.".
Read the rest and you will see that rooms need to be centrally heated. Though it does not specify closets, if you have done an FHA appraisal and called a room a "bedroom" you will have gotten an email from an underwriter. You know that not all requirements are specifically stated in the handbook but are generally required for FHA appraisals, hence the term "minimum" property standards.

Change your attitude, buddy!

My attitude is fine, but I really do not like ignorance, especially among people who should be experts.

You apparently cannot read as I have not made any misleading accusations regarding FHA bedroom requirements. I never said that FHA did not have requirements regarding ingress and egress. What I actually did say is that there is no FHA requirement for a bedroom to have a closet and there is no requirement for central heat. Yes, a bedroom (along with the rest of the home must be sufficiently heated by a permanently installed heat source), but that does not mean it has to be a central heat source (i.e., electric baseboard heat is fine as long as that is sufficient to heat the room to the required temperature on the coldest days in the subject's location). If I am incorrect, I am sure that someone as plainly knowledgeable as you can point out the FHA requirement that the heat source must be "central". Regarding closets in BR's, I have had Underwriters try insist that a closet was a requirement and I made every single one of them back down when I pointed out that there was no such FHA requirement and offered to send them a $100 gift card to their favorite restaurant if they could prove me wrong. .

Here are the FHA requirements for heating source and you will notice that the FHA requirements mention nothing about the heating source being a "central" heating source:


4000.1: FHA Single Family Housing Policy Handbook
II. ORIGINATION THROUGH POST-CLOSING/ENDORSEMENT
D. APPRAISER AND PROPERTY REQUIREMENTS FOR TITLE II FORWARD AND REVERSE MORTGAGES (09/14/15)
3. Acceptable Appraisal Reporting Forms and Protocols (09/14/15)
g. Mechanical Components and Utilities (09/14/15)

i. Heating and Cooling Systems

The Appraiser must examine the heating system to determine if it is adequate for healthful and comfortable living conditions, regardless of design, fuel or heat source.

The Appraiser must notify the Mortgagee of the deficiency of MPR or MPS if the permanently installed heating system does not:

• automatically heat the living areas of the house to a minimum of 50 degrees Fahrenheit in all GLAs, as well as in non-GLAs containing building or system components subject to failure or damage due to freezing;
• provide healthful and comfortable heat or is not safe to operate;
• rely upon a fuel source that is readily obtainable within the subject’s geographic area;
• have market acceptance within the subject’s marketplace; and
• operate without human intervention for extended periods of time.

Central air conditioning is not required but, if installed, must be operational. If the air conditioning system is not operational, the Appraiser must indicate the level of deferred maintenance, analyze and report the effect on marketability, and include the cost to cure.

 

[RSW]

Making stuff up?
Apparently you are not an FHA approved appraiser. If you are, you would know that it is a misleading accusation in that the HUD handbook 4000.1 only refers to bedrooms on page 501 "
v. Bedrooms
The Appraiser must not identify a room as a bedroom that cannot accommodate ingress or egress in the event of an emergency, regardless of location above or below grade.".
Read the rest and you will see that rooms need to be centrally heated. Though it does not specify closets, if you have done an FHA appraisal and called a room a "bedroom" you will have gotten an email from an underwriter. You know that not all requirements are specifically stated in the handbook but are generally required for FHA appraisals, hence the term "minimum" property standards.

Change your attitude, buddy!

I have to completely disagree with you on the FHA closet requirement. I have been doing FHA appraisals since 1995 and have read over the old and new handbooks many times . Nowhere does it say a bedroom has to have a closet. If a closet is one of the criteria for a bedroom , then half of the houses in North Knoxville would not have any bedrooms . Don't feed misinformation on this forum.

 

[timd354]

Spiral staircase is definitely a functional issue, as are the lack of access to bath and no closet. All issues are atypical in my market area and will cause market resistance (less preferred), despite what they consider acceptable in states such as Maryland.

The lack of some things (like a bedroom closet) may create market resistance in your area and other areas, but that does not mean that those items are FHA minimum property requirements