What Is A Bedroom?

[glenn walker]

FHA- FANNIE-MAE Wrong been doing FHA 30 years and my generation was told FHA require closets and appraisers propagated it - The reason was after WW-2 tract built homes all came with closets and the old VA & FHA appraisers quoted the closet issue like holy scripture - Well guess what only wealthy folks had closets back in the day and we have entire areas of Los Angeles and I mean thousands and thousands of homes where people used Armoires ( A Moveable Wood Closet ) kind of like a dresser with drawers but tall enough to hand your suits or dresses.

I HAVE FHA HANDBOOKS GOING BACK TO 1980 and there is and has never been any requirement for built in closet or doors on closets . I Even argued with a chief appraiser back in 1985 and he finally conceded there is no such requirement BUT then to save face he suggested since closets are more typical and common today I needed to comment on market acceptability. We now have custom homes selling for millions were buyers are bringing in Custom made oak Armoires that cost as much as $2,000 to $5,000.

I had a fight with an-appraiser a few years ago - I get a review on her appraisal because under bedroom count she said -0- no bedrooms but on her sketch she showed a kitchen - two baths -a living room and three rooms marked ( other ) So I call her up and I asked her why no bedrooms and sure enough old appraiser and she declares no closets= no bedrooms and I am like the damn home was built in 1890 and people were still riding horses and didn't need closets because they only had one suit and when they moved they took there furniture including their Armoirs with them. NOPE - she says no closets no bedrooms - The real kicker was the home was located in a small Historic area and the buyer was a Los Angeles Attorney who sat on the Cities historical board and he sent her a real nice dear john letter informing her that her career was going to be short lived and she finally dropped the no closet bedroom issue.

 

[ucbruin]

From the article:

Closets


Within the DC area, there are no legal requirements that a bedroom must have a closet. Rooms without closets may not be a deal-breaker to buyers, especially if they are looking at similar older homes in the area that were not built with closets. However, some appraisers may require a framed closet or permanently installed armoire to count the space as a bedroom within the home.

Amazing how some appraisers just make up their own requirements and rules and then try to impose those requirements and rules on people.
If I were a broker, buyer or seller and an appraiser did that on a transaction I was involved with, I would nicely ask for that condition to be removed and if it were not, I would no longer be so nice and I would file a complaint with the state.

From the OP....
"I doubt not having a 4th bedroom ( as the house was sold in the MLS) will have any measurable effect on the property value..."
*************
"...I would file a complaint with the state."

Why should a complaint be filed since the OP states what he states regarding the impact on value???

Is he mandated to label the room as a bedroom rather than say a den????

 

[andrew81]

Appraising a house that has an upstairs room labelled a "bedroom" by the real estate agent. Room has no closet and there is no access to a full bath on the second floor (room has only an adjacent half bath). Due to lack of access to a full bath and no closet, I don't believe the room qualifies as a bedroom. On another note, the entire second level is only accessible via a spiral staircase (maybe 3 feet in diameter) so it makes furnishing the second floor with mattresses for anything larger than a twin bed practically impossible. I doubt not having a 4th bedroom ( as the house was sold in the MLS) will have any measurable effect on the property value, but listing the house as having four bedrooms seems inappropriate for a real estate agent to do.

around here there are agents that will advertise an area barley large enough to fit a crib and a dresser as a 3rd or 4th bedroom in the room count and comment on the listing "...an additional room that could be a bedroom..."

ive even seen small 1 bedroom homes with finished 3 season porches without heat being advertised as 2nd bedrooms

doesnt matter how the agent advertises it, whats most important here is the appraisers opinion of the most likely buyer

 

[timd354]

From the OP....
"I doubt not having a 4th bedroom ( as the house was sold in the MLS) will have any measurable effect on the property value..."
*************
"...I would file a complaint with the state."

Why should a complaint be filed since the OP states what he states regarding the impact on value???

Is he mandated to label the room as a bedroom rather than say a den????

My last comment was not directed at the OP. RIF

 

[andrew81]

what is a bedroom? a room with a bed, thats what it is, what else do i know

 

[Deleted member 128537]

I think the issue is more market acceptability and expectations. If most people in a market expect bedrooms to have closets and legal ingress/egress windows then we are to reflect the market as determining what a bedroom is. The problem is that it might depend upon the age of the home. Most homes built in the early 1900’s in my area did not have closets. They used other means of storing cloths. But today when people build bedrooms they want closet space. So a home built in the 1990’s that has rooms without closets would be problematic in calling them bedrooms based upon market expectations. The definition is more fluid, and at times could be quite subjective in some areas. For example I live in a market where people build second homes. I did an appraisal on a new home used as a second home that had literally no closets in any of the “bedrooms.” Yet people that use these places for second homes have a different set of expectations. Can get a bit tricky.

 

[Michigan CG]

RIF

I am not sure I want to know what that means.

 

[Renee Healion]

"Reading Is Fundamental (RIF) is committed to a literate America..."

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

You know that I, like every other appraiser, regards "central" heat as being a source that does not need attending.

Count me as one of the "every other" as in "alternate" appraisers who does not regard "central" to mean a thermostatically controlled source.

 

[chad hampton]

So what's the answer then? Any room with 4 walls, a bed, and a window is a bedroom? Guess all those homes I see where they sleep in every room are now 6/5/2's?

Lets try to be practical and civil, if that's possible for some on this forum. What does your market say? My market says a bedroom has a closet or it won't function as one. This isn't the 1800's, most people have more than 2 sets of clothes they wear. If a first floor room doesn't have a closet, it's a den or office. If the upstairs room doesn't have a closet, it's a bonus room. I don't necessarily care about access to a full bath. Plenty of older homes have a 1/2 bath off the main bedroom.

Agents can list a home however they like, that's their business. Buyer's walk through and form their own opinion. The only # I care about when it comes to bedrooms is if the home only has 1 or 2.

In your situation, I would probably call the upstairs room a bonus room/loft and say that it can be used as a 4th bedroom, if desired (or whatever # it is). Your job is to report what's there. Say it doesn't have closet and let the UW decide if they want to make a loan.