What is the outlook for fees as UAD 3.6 comes on line?

[Bob Ipock]

I suppose if the fees rise it is up to us to raise them.

Of course, there will be resistance but if appraisers don't back down, they will pay it - that said, even if fees rise a modest amount, it will not compensate for the additional time and detail these forms will entail

On the plus side, more appraisers will quit, which might create a bit of a shortage to force fees up - but the fee rises are always 20-30% below where they need to be .

 

[glenn walker]

Why haven't you diversified? I still do 95% lending work, but very little that ends up at the GSEs, and very little AMC work unless they are willing to pay my fee. Getting outside of the mainstream residential lending arena has been a lifesaver for keeping me in the industry. 1 - 2 week turn times, no BS revision requests, no harassment if you haven't contacted the borrower within 4 hours, no fees under $1k. You have to analyze your area for appraisal opportunities that don't involve mainstream residential lending. And then you have go after those jobs by networking, joining organizations, attending meetings, etc.. It takes work to get there - these jobs don't just magically appear. Here in the PHX area, AMCs are typically paying in the $350 range because there is an over-saturation of appraisers. I can't afford to work for that kind of money at a breakneck pace e.g. 16 hours a day in order to pay the bills. It was having a negative effect on my health, so I had to figure out something new or change occupations. In my early 60's, this is not easy to do without starting a new business of some sort - which also takes a lot of energy, not to mention start-up cash. If I can do it, you can do it!!

That sounds good on paper, but we've never been able to stand together as a bloc against our overseers. Hence, the fact that current average fees still remain 2017-vintage eight years later.

2017 fees? Hell we were averaging $350.00 plus in year 2000. On FHA we Charged $400 plus in year 1999. Three comp report's no UAD and few reviews or stips. That's 26 years ago. Lmao

 

[chad hampton]

Appraisers haven’t set fees in 15 years.

 

[glenn walker]

Appraisers haven’t set fees in 15 years.

In Your area but each market is different depending on how many active appraisers and transaction volumes.

We had appraisers in some areas that could name their fee and other areas where we could get ones accepting low fees and begging for work.

 

[glenn walker]

In Alaska we had to call appraisers and beg them and if they said it's $1,500 bucks for a easy job then they got the $1,500 bucks. There was no negotiation as there may only be three appraisers in a area and their all buddies who often just tell you to call Bob whose their cousin or brother. The guy's who made bank lived in markets that had no competition. In a big market area often the AMC just sends out bids and a gaggle of hungry guys just grab it for $300 bucks.

 

[J Grant]

That sounds good on paper, but we've never been able to stand together as a bloc against our overseers. Hence, the fact that current average fees still remain 2017-vintage eight years later.

Appraisers don't have to stand as a block, just each when they are ready, raise their fees on their own - this new form will be so time-consuming it will occur even among beaten-down appraisers, at some point.

 

[GWISC]

Posted in a Facebook group not long ago:


View attachment 101733

I have been increasing my fees bit by bit every 2 years or so. I do not do work for AMC's. My direct bank clients appreciate my work and like how I complete my reports. Every 2 years, I approach each one and ask if I increase to X, will I see a reduction in volume? Each one has told me that they have no problem with my fees and are ok with my proposed increases. That being said, I research each order prior to submitting a bid as some are not your basic assignment.

It sounds like you have a hard-headed client that is acting like a gate-keeper to allowing you to make a living. Your time is worth something. Know your worth. The new form may take up more time, resources, and brain power. Sometimes, with new forms and charts, you have to puzzle-piece the data together so that everything in the report flows consistently. That takes time and talent. That talent did not just arrive instantly to your brain's tool chest, it took a lifetime of repetitive discipline to get to that point.

I believe I am at the top of the fee schedule for all of my lenders for my geographic area. If you believe you are the very best of all of the appraisers that your client utilizes, then you should be paid the top fee above all the other appraisers. I have no problem asking the lender/client what their typical appraisal fee range is and what the top end fee is. I do not discuss fees with other appraisers, but I can approach my clients to discuss fees. That's one way to determine what fee you will charge. Do not be shy. Be professional. Form a great relationship with the mortgage loan officer and/or their loan processors. I say "great" relationship, because that is what is needed to stay in business. My clients ask my opinions on all sorts of matters relating to real estate. They trust my judgement. And no, I am not a rubber stamp appraiser.

New clients are the opportunity to give yourself a raise. My loyal clients get the best price (although I am still at the top of their fee schedules). The new clients are charged a slight increase over my loyal clients. New client fees are a great way to determine where the "squeal point" is in pricing.

So, don't ask if you can get a raise. Discuss with the client the additional time and cost involved (if any) related to the new form. If you think that the new form will take more time, but they are not willing to pay more, then I would say start searching for a new client. If you can find a new client that will give you the fee that you think is reasonable and fair to you, then you can dump your old client, or tell them that they are now the lowest paying client of all of your clients and that you may have to cut them loose.

Remember, they (meaning banks, Fannie/Freddie) are all claiming that there is a shortage of appraisers (hence PAREA), or at least that is what they are preaching. If that is what they believe, then they may be more inclined to give in to a raise in fee lest they lose an appraiser for their fee panel.

 

[jay trotta]

Seems like more work. Will fees rise commensurately? I ask because I do not have a good feeling about its overall effect on how lucrative the appraisal business will or will not be. Throw in the threat of AI co-opting the industry in the long (short?) term and...oi vey.

After 20 years, I am seriously thinking about hanging it up. I also have an inspector's license and a pretty great related opportunity awaiting in that field. I'm getting closer and closer to making the shift.

Thanks for any insight.

RSY

He who hesitates............

Do It Now.........

 

[glenn walker]

Appraisers don't have to stand as a block, just each when they are ready, raise their fees on their own - this new form will be so time-consuming it will occur even among beaten-down appraisers, at some point.

You should be bumping up fees before the new forms come out even if it's only $25 or $35 bucks. Baby steps and most lenders won't fight over that.

If everyone starts raising fees all at once based on the new form that just gives the lenders team or AMC the excuse to clean house and keep on the more fee friendly nice appraisers who need work.

The sad fact is nobody in lender world cares if the new form takes more time.
I know if I was managing the fee panel we would solve the fee issues by sending those appraisers way less orders. Note To "BOB" ( don't worry take an extra day, we know your a slow learner and we can cut you back to Two Orders a month max until you get up to speed, as we have some younger guys who say these are a piece of cake. Call McKissup and take a online class and call us when you get cheaper and faster. No fee increase for you. Lol

 

[Non Sequitur]

Survey sent out today from one of (if not) the oldest AMCs, note there isn't a question about fees: