What Is Tidewater

[nicholz12]

1. Previous Circulars/News - Home Loans
   http://www.benefits.VA.gov/HOMELOANS/resources_circs_prev.aspCached
   Previous Circulars/News page for the VA Loan Guaranty Service. ... Agreement of Sale/Sales Contract to be Provided to the Fee Appraiser ... In order to match the Turner cost of construction increase of 4.307 percent, the maximum ...... appraisers are being pressured to make appraised values meet or exceed sale prices.

MIke, do you happen to know which circular that's in... the redirect gives several years?

 

[Mike Kennedy]

http://appraisersforum.com/forums/threads/VA-contract-price-change-after-appraisal-uploaded.208048/

 

[J Grant]

Wow. Some appraisers use Tidewater as an excuse to hit a SC price and others use it for what it was intended...no surprise .
Is "helping" veterans...having them pay the highest price for a property?

 

[sandpiperapp]

Wow. Some appraisers use Tidewater as an excuse to hit a SC price and others use it for what it was intended...no surprise .
Is "helping" veterans...having them pay the highest price for a property?

This statement is just wrong. Close minded and wrong. VA appraisers do not use Tidewater to HIT the sales contract price. If we were so intent on HITTING the sc price, we would do it before and without going through the extra process of Tidewater.
I can't speak in absolutes, but I can speak for myself. I am a VA appraiser and I like working with the VA. Tidewater is something we have to deal with. It was started to insure that all potential sales were considered. No appraiser is perfect and sometimes sales get missed. This is an organized, controlled and proactive way to insure everyone has some input for a reconsideration request. It is set up to insure our Veterans get the best possible service. As an appraiser it helps me deal with all the chicken crap that comes up when my research does not support the sc price.
No appraiser is using it to hit any number, it is just a way to make sure that all information is considered.

Some of you think of yourselves as the Market Value Police, and that you are the only ones that can PROTECT market value from all the bad appraisers.

Nonsense, just nonsense.

Working with the VA has some unusual requirements, like the Tidewater Initiative, but it is light years better than being forced to work with a parasitic AMC.
Once again, the Tidewater Initiative helps me as a VA appraiser, and insures our Veterans get good service.

 

[TN Pro]

Wow. Some appraisers use Tidewater as an excuse to hit a SC price and others use it for what it was intended...no surprise .
Is "helping" veterans...having them pay the highest price for a property?

I havent gone back over the posts, but who is saying they use it to hit a SC price?

 

[J Grant]

I should have expanded on my original post...where I said some appraisers use the Tidewater as intended ( meaning they don't hit a SC price because of it but use it as intended to allow parties to submit information before final value). Others right on this thread admitted to bowing to pressure to hit SC price and some VA prices are higher than similar houses I see it all the time. Recently below another thread from a poster who got a SC price changed to higher and she wants to know if she should change her Value to match it ( even after admitting the change order added nothing of value to the property))

Did not mean to offend you and the many good VA panel appraisers don't use Tidewater as a value pressure factor however some apparently do ( t no doubt they push value on non VA reports as well, certain appraisers just have that mindset)

 

[J Grant]

Posts 23, 25 ,26 on this thread...reference problematical issues of influence relating to topic..

Tidewater imo is similar to reconsideration of value ( and the ROV came about partially because of Tidewater ) An experienced, strong minded ethical appraiser will not be unduly influenced by an ROV or Tidewater. And conversely number hitters won't be either...they have a number hitting mindset and thus rarely invoke Tidewater or get an ROV because they appraise "high", in all but the rare few cases.

There are appraisers who want to appraise the right way but are less experienced or sure of themselves and those are the ones who can be influenced. We see many posts from people newer or unsure of themselves struggling with pressure ( imagine all the ones out there who don't post). Read the posts on the board asking if they should change their value upward because the SC price changed, or if they should use the RE agent higher $ sales because the agent keeps calling them . And sorry as it was not my intention to offend any good appraisers... .

 

[Mike Kennedy]

"Tidewater imo is similar to reconsideration of value"

NOPE. An ROV may occur AFTER an appraisal is completed and delivered to a client. An ROV may request correction of subject data, local market data I.D. clarification etc. OR a request to consider additional potentially competitive sales, UCs, or listings which may or may not be directly competitive with a subject property.

TW$ mandatorily occurs PRIOR to completion and delivery of an OMV contained in a Report and IS the blatant reminder that the Appraiser MUST......>>>>>.

(absolutely no different than the 'old now outlawed)...................."STOP WORK AND NOTIFY US IF IT APPEARS LIKELY OR PROBABLE THAT YOUR VALUE MAY NOT MEET OR EXCEED THE CONTRACTED PRICE".

It is what it is.................Coercion.


USPAP 2014-15
Ethics Rule
An appraiser must perform assignments with impartiality, objectivity, and independence, and
without accommodation of personal interests.
Conduct:
An appraiser:
• must not perform an assignment with bias;
• must not advocate the cause or interest of any party or issue;

SR 6-9
I certify that, to the best of my knowledge and belief:
— the statements of fact contained in this report are true and correct.
— the reported analyses, opinions, and conclusions are limited only by the reported
assumptions and limiting conditions, and are my personal, impartial, and unbiased
professional analyses, opinions, and conclusions.
__I have no (or the specified) present or prospective interest in the property that is the
subject of this report, and I have no (or the specified) personal interest with respect to
the parties involved.

I have no bias with respect to any property that is the subject of this report or to the
parties involved with this assignment.
— my engagement in this assignment was not contingent upon developing or reporting
predetermined results.
— my compensation for completing this assignment is not contingent upon the reporting
of a predetermined value or direction in value that favors the cause of the client, the
amount of the value opinion, the attainment of a stipulated result, or the occurrence of
a subsequent event directly related to the intended use of this appraisal.

 

[CindyR]

But if you don't let it coerce you then it is not coercion. It really is a bit different that the old days of comp checks and stop if you can't make it work orders. The order is not going to be cancelled and they are not going to go appraiser shopping. How about looking at it like 'the best defense is a good offense'. They have to give you their best data before they see yours. I had one realtor whining that they could not provide comps until they knew what comps I had selected. POC backed me up and said send us your comps. And all I have to do is explain that they are already in the report and they support my OMV or they are not relevant indicators of value because of this, that and the other. And sometimes you can put a tremendous amount of explanatory data into the report showing how ridiculous said realtor comps really are so that no one has any questions whatsoever about why the value is below the contract price.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

1. 1. What is coercion? A Legal Definition - Black's Law...
      thelawdictionary.org/coercionCached
   2. Compulsion; force; duress. It may be either actual, (direct or positive.) where physical force Is put upon a man to compel him to do an act against his will, or implied, (legal or constructive.) where the relation of the parties is such that one is under subjection to the other, and is thereby constrained to do what his free will would refuse. State v. Darlington, 153 Ind. 1, 53 N. E. 025; Cliappell v. Trent, 00 VA. S49, 19 S. E. 314; Radicli v. Ilutohins, 95 U. S. 213, 24 L. Ed. 409; Peyser v. New York, 70 N. Y. 497. 20 Am. Rep. G24; State v. Boyle, 13 R. I. 53S.
      
      Law Dictionary: What is COERCION? definition of COERCION (Black's Law Dictionary)
      
      
      EXAMPLE, concurrent thread discussion / NEXT TO LAST SENTENCE
   VA Contract Price Change After Appraisal Uploaded