When is a Review Required to meet Std 3?

[Joyce Potts]

Subject to whatever federal requirements may also apply to a given situation, that's exactly what I've always said since before I even showed up on this forum. The govt is the govt. Render unto Caesar.

What do you want to bet that if the employee Reviewer were in Florida and opined to Stds 1 and 2, I would have a pretty good chance the FREAB would entertain an admin complaint?

What do I care about the FDIC or other federal agency going after a complaint explained in my original post. On that one - I don't. That's not likely to go anywhere in this particular case, IMO.

That said, I did file a complaint on a Reviewer a few years ago who had personal issues with me (can you imagine that?) and guess who got re-instated and the client 'investigated'? That client is one of my top three clients to this day.

And screw Caesar.

 

[George Hatch]

Luv Ceasar or hate Caesar, that's on Caesar and based on their actions.

And as I said, if the reviewer at the lender is acting as an appraiser then their employment status and any labeling they may be using are all irrelevant insofar as what appraisers do.

Expectations of the user + actions of the individual. If (and only if) the shoe fits.

There is no nomenclature work-around for our definitions. And there is no standards-related work-around for the gov'ts rights to make their own decisions as to what they will or won't do. That the states are required to adhere to whatever laws/regs at the federal level is between the states and the feds. We're not involved in that.

 

[Joyce Potts]

Oh George. What shade of grey do you identify as today?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

loan originator or an underwriter then those roles are as users, not as an appraiser - regardless of

Exactly what I was saying.

And if a state, like Florida, who adopts USPAP into their state statutes, then would you not agree it's up to a state board to decide if they have jurisdiction, minimally?

George is spot on. No.

Subject to whatever federal requirements may also apply

If you do appraisal for the public, then as a regulated appraiser you have to comply with USPAP. IF you have no license the boards have little impact and at best they can ask you to "cease and desist". But if you are doing evaluations for a bank, doing internal review of the work of others, etc. as an employee of that bank the state board has no authority to interfere just like they cannot dictate evaluators license no matter they call it" market value". And that pretty much applies in any state, mandatory or not.

Many professions allow non-licensed practitioners to work for a company doing work that is regulated if performed for the public. Oil company geologists don't normally license but a consulting geologist must license in states that regulate geologists.

 

[Joyce Potts]

Exactly what I was saying.
George is spot on. No.

If you do appraisal for the public, then as a regulated appraiser you have to comply with USPAP. IF you have no license the boards have little impact and at best they can ask you to "cease and desist". But if you are doing evaluations for a bank, doing internal review of the work of others, etc. as an employee of that bank the state board has no authority to interfere just like they cannot dictate evaluators license no matter they call it" market value". And that pretty much applies in any state, mandatory or not.

Many professions allow non-licensed practitioners to work for a company doing work that is regulated if performed for the public. Oil company geologists don't normally license but a consulting geologist must license in states that regulate geologists.

Now we're doing appraisals for the public?

Thanks for the redundant edification that if your'e not lic or cert, boards have no jurisdiction. You're off topic.

I'm not talking about other professions. Now we're on to cease and desists? You're veering off topic and it's apparent to me, why. This has nothing to do with non-licensed or non-certified appraisers.

Be glad you're not in Florida.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

This has nothing to do with non-licensed or non-certified appraisers.

I am saying the board cannot do anything about a LICENSED OR CERTIFIED APPRAISER who works for a bank as an employee, and does work related to that job INCLUDING administrative or technical reviews of appraisals. In fact, it is one of the issues that has been brought up by bank regulators. The rules are ambiguous but a 'review' can be done by any person 'qualified' and those internal reviews are not subject to USPAP even when done by a certified appraiser. ANY technical review done by an outsider that is an FRT must be done by a certified appraiser. Not so for an evaluation. And most [regulated] bank reviews are not detailed, they go thru their checklist and go. I've seen evaluations done to the evaluation standard by certified appraisers working for regional banks. They are not required to sign them, they don't put their lic number on them, but they do them "in house"...as an employee. That is what one appraiser told me who works for a bank and she is a certified residential appraiser and I have that eval she signed around in my files somewhere.
EDIT
A snippet from this, and yes it is signed by a CR appraiser who is still licensed. It is an evaluation by an appraiser employed by the bank. And she does reviews the very same way. The loan amount is well under deminimus FYI,

 

[George Hatch]

USPAP applies to the conduct of individuals. if the *individual* is acting as a user and making a decision about the property then USPAP doesn't apply to that activity. If the *individual* is acting as an appraiser and making a decision about the appraisal report itself then that does fit the definition and USPAP does address that activity.

You can't hide behind employment status or labels.

Someone engaged in an activity the state doesn't regulate or someone who is getting away with breaking the law are not examples of people acting outside the scope of appraisal practice.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Maybe @BRCJR can answer whether he has to comply with 3 and 4 in order to review a report that comes into the bank. I know that Arkansas looks the other way and Oklahoma isn't even a mandatory state...

 

[Joyce Potts]

Terrel, AGAIN, the fee appraiser hired by the bank was not an employee as set out in my original post. But enjoy your side road.

 

[Meandering]

I am saying the board cannot do anything about a LICENSED OR CERTIFIED APPRAISER who works for a bank as an employee, and does work related to that job INCLUDING administrative or technical reviews of appraisals. In fact, it is one of the issues that has been brought up by bank regulators. The rules are ambiguous but a 'review' can be done by any person 'qualified' and those internal reviews are not subject to USPAP even when done by a certified appraiser. ANY technical review done by an outsider that is an FRT must be done by a certified appraiser. Not so for an evaluation. And most [regulated] bank reviews are not detailed, they go thru their checklist and go. I've seen evaluations done to the evaluation standard by certified appraisers working for regional banks. They are not required to sign them, they don't put their lic number on them, but they do them "in house"...as an employee. That is what one appraiser told me who works for a bank and she is a certified residential appraiser and I have that eval she signed around in my files somewhere.
EDIT
A snippet from this, and yes it is signed by a CR appraiser who is still licensed. It is an evaluation by an appraiser employed by the bank. And she does reviews the very same way. The loan amount is well under deminimus FYI,

View attachment 43360

Thanks.
Now I'm wondering if those "doctors" working for hospitals are actually licensed "doctors" or are just medical checkbox low fee folks, where no medical license board has jurisdiction to due their employment status.


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