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- Professional Status
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- Louisiana
Thanks for the update.
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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork
- Thread starter brbkr
- Start date
RickM
Freshman Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- California
I have been working with the Surface 3 in the field with ACI and Apex v6. After a month it's starting to smooth out and time spent with the report in the office seems less than with Apex Mobile and Phoenix. However, although the Surface is larger and heavier than the Galaxy Note 8 I was using, check boxes and data fields in ACI are really small and filling out the form requires the surface pen most of the time. Retyping is mostly about spelling and grammar because of my large fingers on the drop down keyboard which actually moves around and out of the way quite well. The Apex v6 doesn't have to be redone in most cases however it is still touchy if you make a mistake and too many corrections, the sketch works best if you complete one area at a time which is often inefficient, until you have to go back several steps to change a line length and that line is not attached to the area you are presently working on and the altered line does not adjust the area it is actually part of, etc. To make a long story short it's best to plan ahead when possible and not make mistakes with the sketch program. Now I'm confusing myself. Back to the original thought, using the same software in the field as on the desktop is overall better.
Mike Ault
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Texas
That is interesting, it would be hard to get any more efficient than actually filling out the end product in the field with no data transfer or synchronization required. It seems you may be well ahead of the rest of us. I also have the fat finger issue so I use the pen constantly on my ThinkPad 10 but it doesn't seem to bother me any. Check boxes are a non-issue for me when using it, it is also handy for scribbling free-form notes. The big issue for me would be trying to type all of my various observations on a virtual keyboard. Have you given any thought to installing Dragon 13 on your tablet so you could speak directly into the text fields instead of fooling around with the keyboard? In my experience it works very well indoors, outdoors with the wind blowing into my LG tone Infinum microphone not so much. Keep us posted!
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
FWIW, as Windows 10 nears General Availability, there is some chatter from some folks ranting on about how Windows 10 on a Tablet is inferior to Windows 8.x. Of course, I would not be surprised if most of the complainers are either largely the same crowd that complained about going from Windows 7 to Windows 8.x (and likely every other upgrade, LOL), or are mostly ignorant of the capabilities (largely because they simply won't spend any time trying to learn how to do things as intended.) Some folks historically just like to complain that things are stagnant, don't work well or that MS "broke" something...
Anyway, for those who might want to start seeing how things are shaping up (highly recommended, LOL), I'm linking to a video where the presenter goes over how things are working for him when running a later build of Windows 10 on a Tablet PC. I think the presenter did a admirable job but note that you may have to listen closely due to his region and a slight speech impediment, causing a bit of a "diction" problem (?) The only "stumble" I noticed is that he hasn't mastered the use of the on-screen keyboard, LOL, and don't feel bad if it seems like he may be blowing past some items which are new or slightly confusing to you... It is a new OS and this guy reports on this stuff constantly, so to him, it is second nature and that makes it easy to forget that many viewers don't know all the ins and outs, etc. Nevertheless, the information is accurate and timely, so I hope you find this video helpful.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Anyway, for those who might want to start seeing how things are shaping up (highly recommended, LOL), I'm linking to a video where the presenter goes over how things are working for him when running a later build of Windows 10 on a Tablet PC. I think the presenter did a admirable job but note that you may have to listen closely due to his region and a slight speech impediment, causing a bit of a "diction" problem (?) The only "stumble" I noticed is that he hasn't mastered the use of the on-screen keyboard, LOL, and don't feel bad if it seems like he may be blowing past some items which are new or slightly confusing to you... It is a new OS and this guy reports on this stuff constantly, so to him, it is second nature and that makes it easy to forget that many viewers don't know all the ins and outs, etc. Nevertheless, the information is accurate and timely, so I hope you find this video helpful.
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
kakarotto
Junior Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- California
I want to pick up a sp3, but i want to replace my desktop and get the dock as well. that being said, all my devices (phones, tablets and ereaders) are all in cases. Im not too keen on the idea of removing the case everytime i place the sp3 in the dock, and putting it back on when i take it out on the field. I didn't go with the surface 3 because i dont like the performance of emmc over msata. I'm not a fan of atom processors either, because i've already been duped after several generations (last atom device i got was for the asus t100 which quite simply sucks). Im curious to see how the sp4 will turn out. i know it's going to have a weaker processor than the sp3, but will have superior battery life. i am also willing to wait and see if they have a 14" sp4. I just wish there was a solution to keep the device in a case AND be able to dock it. i guess the best thing to do is wait and see. I would like to use dragon out on the field for note taking as well.
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
kakarotto,
FWIW, I do not have any verified/reliable info regarding a Surface Pro 4 model and I suggest that anyone who tells you that they do may be inventing things in their own minds ;-) So, just keep in mind that a lot of what you read on the internet is pure speculation. Anyway, I don't know why you think a future SP4 will have a weaker CPU than the SP3... Sure, there are those who are hoping that the next model will go down the "Core M" route but then there are those who are pushing to go higher performance, too. Remember, for some, the SP2 outperformed the SP3... A release of an SP4 this fall would mean an awkward position just before commercial availability of the "Skylake" CPUs, so some are speculating we'll just see an SP3 refresh to go along with W10... And then, there is a lot of speculation on screen size, too... it goes on and on... I think if one wants to try and predict stuff like that, you have to look toward official/published statements by MS and one of the most "telling" is that they say that the next iteration will support existing peripherals. Most take that to mean the Type keyboard, SP3 Dock, etc. (the pen is a given, LOL.)
As for comparing the SP3's Atom CPU to your previous experiences, the SP3 is considerably faster than that old (admittedly low end) T100. IMHO, from field test date, he biggest knock on the Atom line is the eMMC storage restriction (vs. true SSD.) Conversationally, the I/O characteristics of eMMC are somewhere in the range of a really good SD card and a pedestrian hard drive (spinning media.) I'll point out that your T100 was also greatly hampered by the 2GB RAM restriction of that device. As we all know, folks (especially appraisers, LOL) tend to think that somehow their new $500 2-in-1 device will outperform their desktop machines and/or will load them down with way too much stuff (many open tabs, multitasking bloated old software, etc.) and thus drag down their devices, making them feel really slow. Additionally, on computers in general, once you run out of RAM (as the foregoing scenarios would hasten), the system will go "to disk" in a sort of "virtual RAM" scenario. The fact that the storage system is slow to begin with only makes this more painful when you are overloading a mobile device. This is why I have always recommended a device with 4GB of RAM (to mitigate this situation.) And today, I also highly recommend that folks steer clear of devices with 2 GB of RAM or less if they want to try and use their old, bloated "full appraisal suites" on them. In almost ANY review you read, even the dweeb reviewers recognize that your Atom system will lag if you are running old.bloated software (just more so on 1 or 2 GB machines) but almost everything runs really nice if you are using a properly coded MOBILE app. So, since you likely want to run an older desktop-type program (or two or three) on your mobile device, you really should get as much RAM as possible on the machine (the same advice one would give for a regular desktop, too) AND work on trying to operate in a more (energy) efficient manner
All that said, an S3 with its 4GB RAM and faster CPU will blow your old T100 out of the water in terms of every significant performance item most appraisers care about.
On the case/dock concern, adding a case to almost ANY device makes it difficult to use a dock similar to the official MS dock. So, your observation/desire/complaint in this regard applies to most any other device, as well. Exceptions exist, but they are few and far between - especially in the moderate price ranges. Anyway, the simple solution is to use a more generic "hub type" dock/port replicator... I use the UAG cases on my Surface devices when I travel or go on inspections. They are not difficult to remove nor re-apply, but sure - I'd love to be able to just drop it in the MS docking device with out removing it, but common sense illustrates why this cannot be done ;-)... I still try to keep an eye out for "the perfect solution" (device, cases, power, whatever) - ;-)
I recognize (and agree with) your desire to simply wait to see what is coming (soon?) - that is prudent IMHO. I believe that unless one really needs something now, one should wait at least a few weeks to see what is announced and then react accordingly.
And as a follow-up to my post #481 (S3 w/4G LTE), you should be able to order (or get?) one this coming Friday. I will be taking mine with me on a trip, but I will not be able to comment/report on it until next week. The information embargo is supposed to expire while I am traveling and I will not have convenient internet access over the weekend. I won't be back in my office until Tuesday and the I'll be a little swamped, trying to catch up, etc. I suspect, however, you'll all see several written reviews between now and then. Hence, I imagine what will work best for those here who are interested in this device will be for me to simply point to the best reviews and add a little germane commentary...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
FWIW, I do not have any verified/reliable info regarding a Surface Pro 4 model and I suggest that anyone who tells you that they do may be inventing things in their own minds ;-) So, just keep in mind that a lot of what you read on the internet is pure speculation. Anyway, I don't know why you think a future SP4 will have a weaker CPU than the SP3... Sure, there are those who are hoping that the next model will go down the "Core M" route but then there are those who are pushing to go higher performance, too. Remember, for some, the SP2 outperformed the SP3... A release of an SP4 this fall would mean an awkward position just before commercial availability of the "Skylake" CPUs, so some are speculating we'll just see an SP3 refresh to go along with W10... And then, there is a lot of speculation on screen size, too... it goes on and on... I think if one wants to try and predict stuff like that, you have to look toward official/published statements by MS and one of the most "telling" is that they say that the next iteration will support existing peripherals. Most take that to mean the Type keyboard, SP3 Dock, etc. (the pen is a given, LOL.)
As for comparing the SP3's Atom CPU to your previous experiences, the SP3 is considerably faster than that old (admittedly low end) T100. IMHO, from field test date, he biggest knock on the Atom line is the eMMC storage restriction (vs. true SSD.) Conversationally, the I/O characteristics of eMMC are somewhere in the range of a really good SD card and a pedestrian hard drive (spinning media.) I'll point out that your T100 was also greatly hampered by the 2GB RAM restriction of that device. As we all know, folks (especially appraisers, LOL) tend to think that somehow their new $500 2-in-1 device will outperform their desktop machines and/or will load them down with way too much stuff (many open tabs, multitasking bloated old software, etc.) and thus drag down their devices, making them feel really slow. Additionally, on computers in general, once you run out of RAM (as the foregoing scenarios would hasten), the system will go "to disk" in a sort of "virtual RAM" scenario. The fact that the storage system is slow to begin with only makes this more painful when you are overloading a mobile device. This is why I have always recommended a device with 4GB of RAM (to mitigate this situation.) And today, I also highly recommend that folks steer clear of devices with 2 GB of RAM or less if they want to try and use their old, bloated "full appraisal suites" on them. In almost ANY review you read, even the dweeb reviewers recognize that your Atom system will lag if you are running old.bloated software (just more so on 1 or 2 GB machines) but almost everything runs really nice if you are using a properly coded MOBILE app. So, since you likely want to run an older desktop-type program (or two or three) on your mobile device, you really should get as much RAM as possible on the machine (the same advice one would give for a regular desktop, too) AND work on trying to operate in a more (energy) efficient manner
All that said, an S3 with its 4GB RAM and faster CPU will blow your old T100 out of the water in terms of every significant performance item most appraisers care about. On the case/dock concern, adding a case to almost ANY device makes it difficult to use a dock similar to the official MS dock. So, your observation/desire/complaint in this regard applies to most any other device, as well. Exceptions exist, but they are few and far between - especially in the moderate price ranges. Anyway, the simple solution is to use a more generic "hub type" dock/port replicator... I use the UAG cases on my Surface devices when I travel or go on inspections. They are not difficult to remove nor re-apply, but sure - I'd love to be able to just drop it in the MS docking device with out removing it, but common sense illustrates why this cannot be done ;-)... I still try to keep an eye out for "the perfect solution" (device, cases, power, whatever) - ;-)
I recognize (and agree with) your desire to simply wait to see what is coming (soon?) - that is prudent IMHO. I believe that unless one really needs something now, one should wait at least a few weeks to see what is announced and then react accordingly.
And as a follow-up to my post #481 (S3 w/4G LTE), you should be able to order (or get?) one this coming Friday. I will be taking mine with me on a trip, but I will not be able to comment/report on it until next week. The information embargo is supposed to expire while I am traveling and I will not have convenient internet access over the weekend. I won't be back in my office until Tuesday and the I'll be a little swamped, trying to catch up, etc. I suspect, however, you'll all see several written reviews between now and then. Hence, I imagine what will work best for those here who are interested in this device will be for me to simply point to the best reviews and add a little germane commentary...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
kakarotto
Junior Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- California
really disappointed they went with emmc for the surface 3. I would have been willing to give atom one last shot if they had an msata hd, but alas....kakarotto,
FWIW, I do not have any verified/reliable info regarding a Surface Pro 4 model and I suggest that anyone who tells you that they do may be inventing things in their own minds ;-) So, just keep in mind that a lot of what you read on the internet is pure speculation. Anyway, I don't know why you think a future SP4 will have a weaker CPU than the SP3... Sure, there are those who are hoping that the next model will go down the "Core M" route but then there are those who are pushing to go higher performance, too. Remember, for some, the SP2 outperformed the SP3... A release of an SP4 this fall would mean an awkward position just before commercial availability of the "Skylake" CPUs, so some are speculating we'll just see an SP3 refresh to go along with W10... And then, there is a lot of speculation on screen size, too... it goes on and on... I think if one wants to try and predict stuff like that, you have to look toward official/published statements by MS and one of the most "telling" is that they say that the next iteration will support existing peripherals. Most take that to mean the Type keyboard, SP3 Dock, etc. (the pen is a given, LOL.)
As for comparing the SP3's Atom CPU to your previous experiences, the SP3 is considerably faster than that old (admittedly low end) T100. IMHO, from field test date, he biggest knock on the Atom line is the eMMC storage restriction (vs. true SSD.) Conversationally, the I/O characteristics of eMMC are somewhere in the range of a really good SD card and a pedestrian hard drive (spinning media.) I'll point out that your T100 was also greatly hampered by the 2GB RAM restriction of that device. As we all know, folks (especially appraisers, LOL) tend to think that somehow their new $500 2-in-1 device will outperform their desktop machines and/or will load them down with way too much stuff (many open tabs, multitasking bloated old software, etc.) and thus drag down their devices, making them feel really slow. Additionally, on computers in general, once you run out of RAM (as the foregoing scenarios would hasten), the system will go "to disk" in a sort of "virtual RAM" scenario. The fact that the storage system is slow to begin with only makes this more painful when you are overloading a mobile device. This is why I have always recommended a device with 4GB of RAM (to mitigate this situation.) And today, I also highly recommend that folks steer clear of devices with 2 GB of RAM or less if they want to try and use their old, bloated "full appraisal suites" on them. In almost ANY review you read, even the dweeb reviewers recognize that your Atom system will lag if you are running old.bloated software (just more so on 1 or 2 GB machines) but almost everything runs really nice if you are using a properly coded MOBILE app. So, since you likely want to run an older desktop-type program (or two or three) on your mobile device, you really should get as much RAM as possible on the machine (the same advice one would give for a regular desktop, too) AND work on trying to operate in a more (energy) efficient manner
On the case/dock concern, adding a case to almost ANY device makes it difficult to use a dock similar to the official MS dock. So, your observation/desire/complaint in this regard applies to most any other device, as well. Exceptions exist, but they are few and far between - especially in the moderate price ranges. Anyway, the simple solution is to use a more generic "hub type" dock/port replicator... I use the UAG cases on my Surface devices when I travel or go on inspections. They are not difficult to remove nor re-apply, but sure - I'd love to be able to just drop it in the MS docking device with out removing it, but common sense illustrates why this cannot be done ;-)... I still try to keep an eye out for "the perfect solution" (device, cases, power, whatever) - ;-)
I recognize (and agree with) your desire to simply wait to see what is coming (soon?) - that is prudent IMHO. I believe that unless one really needs something now, one should wait at least a few weeks to see what is announced and then react accordingly.
And as a follow-up to my post #481 (S3 w/4G LTE), you should be able to order (or get?) one this coming Friday. I will be taking mine with me on a trip, but I will not be able to comment/report on it until next week. The information embargo is supposed to expire while I am traveling and I will not have convenient internet access over the weekend. I won't be back in my office until Tuesday and the I'll be a little swamped, trying to catch up, etc. I suspect, however, you'll all see several written reviews between now and then. Hence, I imagine what will work best for those here who are interested in this device will be for me to simply point to the best reviews and add a little germane commentary...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
so tempted to get a sp3 but I know with sp4 around the corner, there will be even better sp3 deals in the near future.
Mike Ault
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2004
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Texas
If you will look closely at the protective case designed for the ThinkPad 10 (also sold by Lenovo) you will notice that it has a hinged flap which covers the I/O ports for the docking station. I never have to remove the ThinkPad from its case – I just open the protective flap and set it down on my docking station connected to the network and I am ready to go. That is one of very nicest features of the ThinkPad and after a couple of months of using it I've been very pleased with it overall as a field inspection device. It has enough power to do what I need it to do with the exception of running Dragon, definitely anemic results there.....
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
FWIW, MS did not choose to go with eMMC for the S3 - that is what the Atom line currently supports. My guess is that a "pad" type device doesn't fit your desires since you obviously want a full Tablet PC vs. something cloer aligned with a companion device designed for mobile apps (vs. full "x86-style software suites." I suggest you dial in the term "Skylake" for your future dreams ;-)
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Mike,
That is a great point on the TP10 rugged case that I forgot to emphasize. Did you remove the protective screen cover or even try to use the screen protector film that came temporarily taped to the case? Are you using the official TP10 dock? I have found that accessory to be hard to find. Understood about your Dragon running a little slow - that is a bit of a resource hog, even on most full laptops, etc. I've not tried any of the "app" variants/competitors, but I need to...
Regards,
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/