Been over 48 hrs since I got my notice that NAIFA is soliciting ALL Appraisal Groups to join in harmony to form a board to work on one issue. Protect the Appraiser I thought the forum would be buzzing with comments PROBALLY most of them negative. But at least commenting
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WOW! Over 48 hrs & no debate!
- Thread starter Karl
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I am interested in the what would be negative IF IT IS DONE the way NAIFA has presented the idea. I see it as FINALLY a way for ALL Appraiser's to have one voice & WOULD THINK that it MIGHT wake up the A.I. that there is a major concern out here.
Dennis J. Black ASA IFAS
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Karl
You are right. How can anyone be against appraisal associations banding together in order to reduce course development costs, interact with politicians and federal agencies, standing against predatory lending, etc... It seems pretty clear where the leadership lies when it comes to watching out for working appraisers.
You are right. How can anyone be against appraisal associations banding together in order to reduce course development costs, interact with politicians and federal agencies, standing against predatory lending, etc... It seems pretty clear where the leadership lies when it comes to watching out for working appraisers.
Austin
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I think some people give the AI a bum rap. Many appraisers look up their noses at AI and call them elitists, then when they get in trouble they cry for the AI to bail them out. The AI represents its membership based on its founding principles and the staff and committees exist to carry out their constitutional duties, which do not include running interference for the appraisal community. Generally AI people don’t have the same problems others do because they have distinguished themselves with high standards, so why should any one expect them to play big brother. The AI people got together and formed an organization to suit their purposes, so why can't other appraisers do the same? If you want to be governed, first you have to be governable.
Farm Gal
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Well said, Austin!
I am an associate member but have never acquired my SRA... I honestly cannot at this time (nor at any time in the last 12 years) see any specific benefit to earning that designation. For a few years I thought they were going to fold on the residential level. For many years, the designation was absolutely economically prohibative. (Diapers and college at the same time :roll: )
I attend meetings, throw my associate money at them every year and participate.
I think NAIFA has come a long way, but the Institute people I have contact with are highly professional, and have earned my respect.
Throwing rocks from one organization to the next is in my opinon self-defeating. AI bashing cause you aren't a member isn't right either. If I grouse it is justified, it's MY dues money being spent.
We definitely need some sort of umbrella org. focused on national concerns of appriasers, particularly residential appraisers. I am not sure if that need extends to commercial/general folks or not. Any input?
I am an associate member but have never acquired my SRA... I honestly cannot at this time (nor at any time in the last 12 years) see any specific benefit to earning that designation. For a few years I thought they were going to fold on the residential level. For many years, the designation was absolutely economically prohibative. (Diapers and college at the same time :roll: )
I attend meetings, throw my associate money at them every year and participate.
I think NAIFA has come a long way, but the Institute people I have contact with are highly professional, and have earned my respect.
Throwing rocks from one organization to the next is in my opinon self-defeating. AI bashing cause you aren't a member isn't right either. If I grouse it is justified, it's MY dues money being spent.
We definitely need some sort of umbrella org. focused on national concerns of appriasers, particularly residential appraisers. I am not sure if that need extends to commercial/general folks or not. Any input?
Terrel L. Shields
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All the organizations have their pluses and minuses. But two points - one being designations. IN 12 years I have yet to be asked if I have a designation except about 5 times and EVERY one asked about an MAI. So from my perspective anything but an MAI is a waste of money. It is also enormously expensive in time and money.
Speaking of which....most organizations charge too much, perhaps because they are too small, spend too much on fruitless lobbying, and several organizations have went from financially sound to S & L status. A single organization would go along way to help, but many small professional organizations do not charge as much as NAIFA, ASA, ASFMRA, or AI for membership. In my state even lawyers and CPAs pay much less to belong. I am a member of the Amer. Assoc. of Petroleum Geologists. AAPG charges $110/yr. $75 more for a designated title, $35 or so gets you into either the division of energy minerals or environmental earth sciences which has quarterly reports and publications as well. Monthly magazine and monthly Journal, good educational offerings, trips, regional meetings, etc. etc. How can they do it at this price with a few thousand P. Geo's and it seems almost every appraisal organization is on the brink of bankruptcy?
Speaking of which....most organizations charge too much, perhaps because they are too small, spend too much on fruitless lobbying, and several organizations have went from financially sound to S & L status. A single organization would go along way to help, but many small professional organizations do not charge as much as NAIFA, ASA, ASFMRA, or AI for membership. In my state even lawyers and CPAs pay much less to belong. I am a member of the Amer. Assoc. of Petroleum Geologists. AAPG charges $110/yr. $75 more for a designated title, $35 or so gets you into either the division of energy minerals or environmental earth sciences which has quarterly reports and publications as well. Monthly magazine and monthly Journal, good educational offerings, trips, regional meetings, etc. etc. How can they do it at this price with a few thousand P. Geo's and it seems almost every appraisal organization is on the brink of bankruptcy?
Farm Gal
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Ter-
yup:
that's that poor mangement and oversteping of reasonable bounds I feel obligated to comment on... when MY membership dollar gets squandered I squeal!
Agree 100% on the occasional value of a MAI in some circles. Although I respect most ( :evil: ) SRA's, I have run into a few whose designation isnt worth the match to burn it up.
Where does everyone thing the major NEED that might draw disparate appraisers into an umbrella organization might lie?! Seems unless it is thier britches on fire no one runs for the water.
yup:
that's that poor mangement and oversteping of reasonable bounds I feel obligated to comment on... when MY membership dollar gets squandered I squeal!
Agree 100% on the occasional value of a MAI in some circles. Although I respect most ( :evil: ) SRA's, I have run into a few whose designation isnt worth the match to burn it up.
Where does everyone thing the major NEED that might draw disparate appraisers into an umbrella organization might lie?! Seems unless it is thier britches on fire no one runs for the water.
Austin
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- Jan 16, 2002
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- Certified General Appraiser
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- Virginia
Lee Ann: I will probably be excommunicated from the AI for telling this story, but that seems to be the order of the day in this country. In the late 1980’s, I took all of the required classes for the RM and MAI designation. I had all of my experience credit for the RM designation and all I needed to do was write the demo report. I took a class on writing the AI residential demo from the national chairman of the residential committee. They gave us a lot of lecture and about 10 sales comparison problems to work. We ran out of class time so the instructor gave out the answers to the adjustments extracted from the sale data and told us to go home and work the problems, but if we came up with any other answers other than the ones he gave us, then we were wrong.
I went home and tried to work the problems, but I could not see where those adjustments came from. They were not there in my mind. I said to myself: “Either I am not smart enough to be an appraiser or something is out of whack here.” After thinking it over a few days I decided to sit down and analyze these sales to see what the heck was going on.
I decided to graph the data to see if that would help. I got the bright idea of putting the gross living area on the X-axis and the sale price on the Y-axis to see what it looked like. When I looked at the graph and the data grid, the answer was perfectly clear. The AI answers were all wrong. There was one item out of about 5 that required an adjustment. That led me into using simple and multiple regression methods. After that, I said to myself: “Why would I want a designation certifying that I had been tested and certified to use erroneous methods?” It would be meaningless. I don’t mean that as a slam on the AI. It is just the state of the art of the appraisal science. I would do a demo using methods that I understand but I would not accept a designation from any organization until the gray areas in the theory are cleared up because in my mind designations under present conditions are…., well, lets just say that personally I wouldn’t wear one.
I just purchased a new copy of “The Appraisal of Real Estate” 12th edition. I was working sales comparison problems from the book using regression. The AI theory is correct in my opinion but their methods don’t apply the theory. I worked the main sales comparison demo problem in the book and their solution is clearly wrong. They actually ended up worse off after making adjustments than before any adjustments were made and their answer was 12% or $58,000 to high. I base this on the coefficient of determination. Before any adjustments were made a simple graph showed an R^2 of 48% meaning half of the variance was explained by the graph. After they made adjustments their solution dropped to 31% explained. Plus, all of their imported adjustments were clearly wrong which is why their solution went from bad to worse. You can’t import data into a data set. Personally, I believe the AI is fully aware of this but do not teach it because it would be over the head of most people.
I went home and tried to work the problems, but I could not see where those adjustments came from. They were not there in my mind. I said to myself: “Either I am not smart enough to be an appraiser or something is out of whack here.” After thinking it over a few days I decided to sit down and analyze these sales to see what the heck was going on.
I decided to graph the data to see if that would help. I got the bright idea of putting the gross living area on the X-axis and the sale price on the Y-axis to see what it looked like. When I looked at the graph and the data grid, the answer was perfectly clear. The AI answers were all wrong. There was one item out of about 5 that required an adjustment. That led me into using simple and multiple regression methods. After that, I said to myself: “Why would I want a designation certifying that I had been tested and certified to use erroneous methods?” It would be meaningless. I don’t mean that as a slam on the AI. It is just the state of the art of the appraisal science. I would do a demo using methods that I understand but I would not accept a designation from any organization until the gray areas in the theory are cleared up because in my mind designations under present conditions are…., well, lets just say that personally I wouldn’t wear one.
I just purchased a new copy of “The Appraisal of Real Estate” 12th edition. I was working sales comparison problems from the book using regression. The AI theory is correct in my opinion but their methods don’t apply the theory. I worked the main sales comparison demo problem in the book and their solution is clearly wrong. They actually ended up worse off after making adjustments than before any adjustments were made and their answer was 12% or $58,000 to high. I base this on the coefficient of determination. Before any adjustments were made a simple graph showed an R^2 of 48% meaning half of the variance was explained by the graph. After they made adjustments their solution dropped to 31% explained. Plus, all of their imported adjustments were clearly wrong which is why their solution went from bad to worse. You can’t import data into a data set. Personally, I believe the AI is fully aware of this but do not teach it because it would be over the head of most people.
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