Analyze this statement.

[Webbed Feet]

<snip> ........... Cranky old guys like PE and Webbed are entitled, you aren't.

K. Mc,

LOL! That got me laughing! I good chuckle is always welcome!

Webbed.

 

[Kevin Mc]

Becoming?

Careful Kevin .. you are becoming CRANKY ...

I'm a lengendary Crank, ask any of the NY guys.

 

[T.J.]

Trainees should not be reviewing anyone's work.

A lot of people have said that reviewing other peoples work is one of the best ways to learn and I agree. However as some have also noticed that a trainee caught a mistake by someone who's certified. I understand if it's an ego thing and you think trainee's need to be your floor mat, but that's not me. I will take advantage of every opportunity I can to learn whatever I can. But apparently there are those that trust my work and that's what matters.

Your mentor is acting in an unprofessional manner.

My mentor is just fine thanks. I made no mention of them and you taking a swipe at them, unfounded I might add, doesn't exactly add to your reputation.

I have no problem with you trying to learn as much as possible and coming here as a trainee is a great move and I laud you for it, however like a few others feel, you lack the credentials and experience to be reviewing others work. It is my opinion, nothing more. Good luck to you.

That's totally fine. This is the first thing you've said that I can respect you for. Because you're not making come across like it's gospel rather the personal opinion that it is. I thank you for that. I have come to understand where you and the others who have said this are coming from. Which is why I made the comment I should have waited a couple of months to make this post once I've passed my test. However even though I haven't taken and passed that test yet, there isn't going to be a whole lot of difference to me between now and then other than you wouldn't see the "trainee" next to my name which is what seems to be most of you are looking at. So I do take this and say yes I understand and thank you for telling me how you feel. I'll keep that in mind in the future.

 

[T.J.]

Hey!! Thomas John CHILL OUT!! , there are some that are on your side, As your Profile says your a Trainee DO NOT get riled, this place will be even harder on you the more you P people off. Most are TRYING to be constructive & YET we do reserve the right to come down on you & you will loose. This can also be a place where you can learn to get your point across without getting everyone alienating you. You had the B___S to say Trainee now think seriously of staying in line or you'll just be ignored. I know that when you find "Crap" & your trying hard to do it right it's frustrating, BUT retaliation on here to some of the finest in the business will not get you anywhere.

Karl,

I'm not wanting to "p" anyone off. I don't mean to do that at all. Like I said in my post to Kevin, I've come to understand where those have said they don't think trainees should be doing review work. I respect that too. I'm sorry if I have seemingly alienated anyone. I don't want to do that and that's not who I am. I've only "retaliated" against the ones who came across that there crap doesn't stink. I won't take that from anyone, but I do respect what everyone has said.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Mr Johns,
If you would please answer a question for me .. how long have you been in the appraisal business total? I think that may answer some of our questions. If you would be so kind ... and I will not say a word about your answer toward you personally. Its just something Id like to know.

 

[T.J.]

Mr Johns,
If you would please answer a question for me .. how long have you been in the appraisal business total? I think that may answer some of our questions. If you would be so kind ... and I will not say a word about your answer toward you personally. Its just something Id like to know.

2 years and three months. Approximately of course.

But I don't think I'd mind what your opinion of that is. Maybe that will tell me something I didn't know. So please let me know.

And please don't call me Mr. Johns. As long as my father is still alive he's the one that earns the Mr. I'm just T.J. :laugh:

 

[Non Sequitur]

I'm a little torn. IMO a trainee is a direct reflection of his/her mentor. If the mentor is qualified I'll assume the trainee under adequate supervision can do a credible review. With that said, the statement in the OP is pathetic and the trainee, IMO, is correct in calling B.S. But here's the kicker, if I were a chief appraiser I wouldn't accept a review from a trainee. Not because I don't think it would be credible but because of reactions reflected in this thread.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Take a look at the original post. Then get back to me.

And entitled? Entitled to what?... <snip>

Mr. Johns,

Here is what I think I am entitled to say. But first I want to requote the original offending paragraph you had issues with.

"The appraiser used an active listing as an additional sale in this appraisal report. According to USPAP, an active listing is considered a comparable sale and can be used as such. USPAP only requires the appraiser to have 2 valid sales in the appraisal report that establishes market value for the subject property. The appraiser used 3 valid sales in this report with an active listing to show that the market is stable for this area."

I'm going to guess the above was a rebuttal to your review, and you've been asked to rebut the rebuttal. So we have rebuttal wars! Am I right? .... ... If I am, I would resist the initial Darth Vader reaction you had to the above statement and instead call on the "Force" in order to resist falling into the Dark Side. Get in touch with your inner Wookie or something. Don't take me incorrectly. For a long time now on the forum, I have raged against the poor and incorrect terminologies I read being used by real estate appraisers. Honestly, the absolute worst is probably from old timers that just cannot get with the USPAP bandwagon. And you are correct, they could all stand trying actually reading it for a change. So I can appreciate your reaction. Just not in context of a professional review response to poor wording, if I could at least be confident I could understand what was intended to have been said.

Someone in this thread said to file a board complaint over the poorly worded paragraph you posted. I hope they were joking. Not that I am against filing complaints, just not for something like the above. My take on what you asked about? It all falls under "meant to say" reading between the lines to me. I would think this person "meant to say" listings used on the sales grid as a comp and not "sales." And is horribly confused regarding USPAP requirements, versus secondary mortgage market requirements, versus also contractual requirements of a particular client. But a review is not the place for providing CE for the other party. This said, if this person failed in providing real and meaningful market analysis statements, I would probably focus on, and reject, the statement made by the last sentence. One single active listing does NOT prove any market to be doing anything. This one fact is a part of the entire joke going on with recent AMC demands for extremely limited numbers of active listings to be reported as if this actually works for that purpose.

The issue of trainee level people completing reviews of the work of other people that are above the trainee level. Assisting in this with supervision of a qualified higher level licensed supervisor? .. Ok, I'll go for that. But I'll post the following for other trainees, since you are brimming over with confidence! .. .. During a time when copious numbers of trainees are currently being trained by the clueless and willingly fraudulent, do you trainees really want to be signing professional reviews of the work of others? Not just that, but declaring war during a following rebuttal sequence of a ****ing match between yourselves and someone else? I'd like to advise that if you are that confident.. I surely hope you end up absolutely correct in every regard. Even then, you could be so right, you end up dead right. So are any of you really ready to walk a tight rope without a balancing pole and no safety net? Because with the supervisors most of you have, you don't have those things. Is that a time to be going head to head with other appraisers out to defend their reputations?

Webbed.

P.S. Congratulations for hanging in here! I tend to admire the tough skinned forum members that can take a few shots and come back for more! Not that I believe in taking shots at anyone for that purpose. But sometimes things just don't come out right in a post and stress effects us all. I'd like to take back a post or two I've made myself now and then. I believe staying in the game on this forum is the right choice.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

2 years and three months. Approximately of course.

But I don't think I'd mind what your opinion of that is. Maybe that will tell me something I didn't know. So please let me know.

And please don't call me Mr. Johns. As long as my father is still alive he's the one that earns the Mr. I'm just T.J. :laugh:

TJ ... and thank you for allowing me to be so personal.
Your post rather shows why we 'old cranky guys' take these posts so seriously. Your experience is only that of markets which are totally crazy .. either way up or tanking. There is no better background for review than experience, and frankly yours is very limited. While I have no doubt you have good book knowledge and have appraised properties, the lack of experience limits you. Its nothing personal but experience is the very best teacher in the world. Also while it is true that many experienced appraisers cant appraise for anything, it is also true that many more without experience suffer more from this affliction.
You will find that many of us here are not after you personally but have been around along enough to know that the inexperienced lack the knowledge of understanding difficult properties and the ranges of tolerence that may be necessary when conducting a review.
Your poor choice of words started the backlash I think and I now believe that was not your intention. Again .. its an experience thing and it goes exactly to that point. I doubt you will use that word again in a post or even in a review.
I also agree that the appraisers choice of selection of comparables may no doubt be poor and not proper and poor appraisal practice.
Please understand I dont have issues of trainees vs certifieds .. its just a matter that it is my belief that no one should be reviewing properties until they have five years in the business and have experienced differing markets. Its not trainee vs certified .. its in fact experienced vs inexperienced. Thats all.

 

[Laughing Heir]

...I understand if it's an ego thing and you think trainee's need to be your floor mat, but that's not me.

This is exactly what we are supposed to be, well maybe not a floor mat, but...

Trainees are at the bottom of the food chain. Just like a rookie on a sports team, pledge in a frat, a private in the army, etc. You have to eat a lot of s%$t before earning an ounce of respect, what's wrong with that?

I think most people on the forum give me more latitude than I ever could have expected in responses to urgent pleas for help.

I applaud you for disagreeing with people, but, from a fellow trainee, carry yourself humbly in the forum, especially when dealing with appraisers that have been in the trenches for decades and have eaten way more S&%t than us. My $0.02, take it or leave it.