copywriting

[Joyce Potts]

Great Stuff!

 

[DWiley]

Tim,

Forgive my lack of precision. I guess technically the information came from the Library of Congress. The Copyright Office only explained to me how to access the information.

The process is simple. Go to the Copyright Office, and look up the registration number (or look it up on line). Then go to the Library of Congress and ask them to pull the document (which can take a few weeks).

Then go back to the Library of Congress (or send someone else if it is not convenient to go yourself) and look at the document. You cannot copy passages (that is, after all what copyright is all about), but you can “mine” all the data you want. GLA, HBU, condition, value opinion. It is all fair game. You can also summarize the findings - you just can’t duplicate the presentation. When you leave, any documents you have will be examined to make sure that you have not violated copyright.

This is how I know that taking data like GLA, Room Count, etc. from a report is not a violation of copyright laws.

It is also how I know that registering a copyright makes any non-redacted information available to the public.

No one has to take my word for it. Just ask the Copyright Office and/or Library of Congress. I have found them to be very helpful. The nice lady I talked to first provided the best explanation; she told me that copyright protects the way information is presented, but does not protect the information itself. I think their web site says the same thing.

Danny

 

[Elliott]

I'm a little slow....so I go to the Library of Congress....and input
the copyright #.....

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pw...EGS&PID=3773&SEQ=20080317125404&CNT=25&HIST=1

And I get Mr. Vinings abstract, but where do I find the report or the GLA?

 

[Carnivore]

Danny,


Yes, I understand its not hat hard to do. Unless your an AVM Company, then it seems to be an awesome burden. Hardly seems worth the trouble to be able to sell a $35.00 dollar AVM. Looks like it would cost probably in excess of millions of dollars to gleem all that infromation from the intellectual property.

I really am beginning to understand why they have steal it!

On serious note, do you know what is public readily available data and what is not, within the report? (I already know the answer).

You see your definition of Facts is not quite the same as mine.

If its a fact you would not need me!

Maybe someone can define fact in the context of Copyright?

 

[Lee Lansford]

Danny,


Yes, I understand its not hat hard to do. Unless your an AVM Company, then it seems to be an awesome burden. Hardly seems worth the trouble to be able to sell a $35.00 dollar AVM. Looks like it would cost probably in excess of millions of dollars to gleem all that infromation from the intellectual property.

I really am beginning to understand why they have steal it!...

Or, more likely, if the appraisal is communicated with one of the current Fannie forms, just rely upon appraiser's Certification #21 ("I know, I know...many appraisers believe that this certification does not mean what it says.").

 

[DWiley]

On serious note, do you know what is public readily available data and what is not, within the report? (I already know the answer).

You see your definition of Facts is not quite the same as mine.

One is allowed to see the entire work. If the work is an appraisal report, then one can extract data such as, cap rates, addresses of comps, value indication from cost approach, opinion of site value, etc.

There is no distinction between the factual data and the opinions and conclusions. Neither is protected by copyright - it is their presentation that is protected by copyright.

One cannot copy the photographs, sketches, etc. Again that is what copyright is all about.

 

[Tim Vining]

copyright

Nore can you make a derivative product.
You cannot copy passages (that is, after all what copyright is all about), Copyright (bundle of copy rights) reserves to the author the right to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute copies, perform, and display the works publicly. It is illegal for anyone to violate any of the rights provided by the copyright law to the owner of the copyright. but you can “mine” all the data you want. GLA, HBU, condition, value opinion. It is all fair game. The simple answer here is to redact this information. You can also summarize the findings (no that is making a derviative) That was one of the elements of dispute in my copyright case)- you just can’t duplicate the presentation. When you leave, any documents you have will be examined to make sure that you have not violated copyright. That could get to be an interesting proposition.
You, also might look into the Digital Millenium Act as part of the Copyright Law. I do agree it would be very cumbersome for a data company to go sit at the Library of Congress and view appraisal reports, it would be quite expensive. The simple solution to all of this is to purchase certain of the copyrights in the work. I think it perfectly legitimate for a lending institution to utilize information from a report to aid their forecasting, trend analysis, etc. It is not okay to re-bundle elements of the information and re-sale. That is when rights are being trampled upon. Companies like FNC are taking data from appraisal reports and making derivative products, i.e. their appraisal review product (by the by how can they do an appraisal review without being certified within a particular state?) They are also capturing appraisal information for their collateral dna program. I would allege these type of companies are lifting everything including photographs from the appraisal reports. It seems like I read a statement from Reyburn at one of the winter meetings where he stated they (fnc) lift everything right down to the photos.
Another corolary is the architect's provision within copyright law. The actual structure itself is procteced by copyright. Trust me on this one architects jealously protect their copyright.

 

[DWiley]

Tim,

The "derivative work" approach is, to state it mildly, stretching. A summary is not a derivative work. Must I post a summary of sections of your own report to prove that this is allowed?

Again, anyone who wants to read about derivative works can do so - the link is

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html

By the logic you are applying, virtually all appraisal reports are derivative works, because they are almost always created by relying on data taken from copyrighted material.

Be Well,

DW

 

[Fred]

("I know, I know...many appraisers believe that this certification does not mean what it says.").

I have been thinking the same thing about the definition of hypothetical conditions for about almost a week.

 

[Fred]

Doesn't that get us back to the previous question? Anyone still think registering a copyright doesn't create USPAP confidentiality problems?

Anyone want to be a fruit bin on the answer?