copywriting

[Brad Ellis]

Tim,

Interesting info. And before going furtehr - I again offer apologies for assuming you were involveed in the class action suit.

I think it perfectly legitimate for a lending institution to utilize information from a report to aid their forecasting, trend analysis, etc. It is not okay to re-bundle elements of the information and re-sale.

I note you talk about their (FNC's) review product and Collateral DNA.

First I have never seen their review product and we use FNC pretty extensively. What is it? If you are talking about their scoring, then they have lifted nothing; instead they converted the data into an xml stream and ran their rules against it- based upon their own generated GAAR- Generally Accepted Appraisal Rules.

Next- they do not charge for all the ancillary reports- they charge for storing the pdf images and running the rules against the appraisal. Everything else is included. Now I guess you could make a case that their charges do charge in part for that stuff via the overall price, but - and this part may well be important- all I get is data from appraisals done for us or for our brokers andc correspondents. We do nmot get anything done for, say, WAMU or for CW.

So, if they are regurgitating what I give them how are they reselling it?

Brad

 

[Joyce Potts]

Doesn't that get us back to the previous question? Anyone still think registering a copyright doesn't create USPAP confidentiality problems?

Doesn't this still get us back to the question of why it's an alleged USPAP and/or privacy violation under GLB when the appraiser registers it with the US Copyright office, but when the data miner 'usurps' the same data in whole or in part, repackages it and provides it for either a cost or for free, it's perfectly legit?

Seems the appraiser is always left holding the short end of the stick.

 

[Elliott]

If a report is copyrighted and its data is sucked out of it,
does it make a sound?

 

[Workbox]

If a report is copyrighted and its data is sucked out of it,
does it make a sound?

Yeah, it sounds like this :
SSSSSSSSKRrrrrsssss.

 

[Joyce Potts]

If a report is copyrighted and its data is sucked out of it,
does it make a sound?

Only if the entity sucking out the data is making money off it. Who's your sucker now?

 

[DWiley]

why it's an alleged USPAP and/or privacy violation under GLB when the appraiser registers it with the US Copyright office, but when the data miner 'usurps' the same data in whole or in part, repackages it and provides it for either a cost or for free, it's perfectly legit?

Why is it illegal for a state certified appraiser to spout off value opinions without support while a non-appraiser can freely state their opinions of value without following USPAP?

When one chooses to be an appraiser, then one accepts both the rewards and the obligations inherent in that choice. If you choose to be an appraiser, then you are required to follow accepted standards, actually support value conclusions with facts, and honor the confidential nature of the appraiser client relationship. The client has no such obligations. They are free to openly discuss many things appraisers must treat as confidential.

This is true in most professions. I can bad mouth my doctor all I want, be he can't defend himself by revealing things in my medical records.

As Mom said at her birthday dinner tonight - sometimes life is not fair

 

[Workbox]

As Mom said at her birthday dinner tonight - sometimes life is not fair

Funny, my mom would say the same thing, but would add, "but find out why, and do something about it."

 

[Joyce Potts]

Sherriff turns hired gun?

Why is it illegal for a state certified appraiser to spout off value opinions without support while a non-appraiser can freely state their opinions of value without following USPAP?

When one chooses to be an appraiser, then one accepts both the rewards and the obligations inherent in that choice. If you choose to be an appraiser, then you are required to follow accepted standards, actually support value conclusions with facts, and honor the confidential nature of the appraiser client relationship. The client has no such obligations. They are free to openly discuss many things appraisers must treat as confidential.

This is true in most professions. I can bad mouth my doctor all I want, be he can't defend himself by revealing things in my medical records.

As Mom said at her birthday dinner tonight - sometimes life is not fair

On a personal note--That's about the most arrogant reply as I've ever read. Good job!! You hit the nail on the head there, Danny!!

AMC's and AVM providers are NOT subject to USPAP even though they provide the same or very similar product that FRT's are basing loan collateralizations on!! BRAVO, my friend!! Your service to the ASB, the appraisal community and the public-at-large is to be commended!! Job well done!

With regard to your mother's comment (and BTW HB, MOM!), forgive me if I don't leap to the conclusion that the apple doesn't far from the tree. Unfortunately for me, my father taught me that when one chooses a path in life, one's core values will always transcend. Your story is truly a testament and affirmation to my father.

It's unfortunate that many appraisers NAIVELY think that life's playing field is level for all participants. It's clear to me, based on our exchanges, that your efforts are not really about fair competition, but more about ensuring an unfair advantage. I must admit, you've been successful. So far.


P.S. The doctor analogy thingy--is priceless.

 

[Fred]

On a personal note--That's about the most arrogant reply as I've ever read.

Now, I am insulted.

 

[Brad Ellis]

Folks,

I think the single most important factor here is what Danny has discovered regrading the accessibility of appraisals reports that have been registered with the copyright office and its impact upon the confidentiality portion of the ethics rule.

It is pretty clear that confidential information IS available publicly. While I am not disputing what Tim says is available on line and that the on-line information does not appear to disclose anything confidential, it is also clear that by going to the lengths to which Danny has gone, he has demonstrated that such data is openly available.

No one said it has to be "easy" to find in order for it to be publicly available. It only has to be "available" to raise the confidentiality question.

USPAP provides a list of those who may receive such confidential information and the copyright office, and now by demonstrable evidence the public at large, is not among them.

Further, this part of the rule also references GLB. I think we all know that this covers our work as well. So, registering the copyright may well violate that as well if the report contains any confidential information at all since it can be seen in its entirety.

There will always be those who disagree and that is fine. For me, this satisfies my curiosity. I have no issue with the conclusion that registering an appraisal violates the Ethics Rule and probably violates GLB as well in most instances- until and unless a court rules otherwise.

In the meantime, my earlier suggestion still seems to apply. If an appraiser believes that his or her work has been illegally used under copyright law, they can initiate the suit and once that is done, register the report to enforce the rights since the report itself will surely become a part of the court case and therefore, unless sealed by the court, a part of the public record.

Brad

Brad