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Virgina REAB and Portal Petition

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Who here doesn't really think this is not about a conversion program, it's about data mining and power?

Others have already tried to fight FNC due to data mining. This isn't about a conversion program. If it was, it would not be just about AIReady.

I've spent enough time on this thread. I'm out.

I agree, this thread contains lots of diversions, but at the end of the day it is really about fighting data mining.

Some have claimed it is about report security, yet one of the most insecure formats of all, PDF, is defended. Why? Because some perceive that using PDFs inhibits data mining (it really doesn't, by the way)

If appraisers are concerened about security all they need to do is use real digital signatures. If they want to fight against data mining, well, all I can say is good luck. And good luck getting every lender in America to use a single web storage vault. You would have a better chance of getting all appraisers to agree on something.

It is good to see involved appraisers who care about the profession, but energy is better spent on things that have a real chance of success.
 
I wonder why DW is keeping his Software so secret? Maybe he want to be the only one compliant?
 
What is a true copy?

The information is the information, it is not a file type or the software program which displays the information contained in that file type. AIReady is not a report, it is a format. The native software program converts a report created using that software into the AI Ready format. The Appraisalport plug-in software, the OADI uploader software, is then used to transfer this information from the appraiser's computer to the Appraisalport computer. Does it transfer every dotted "i" and crossed "t" that may be depicted on a screen or printed on paper? No. Is that a violation of USPAP? No. Common data contained within a report type is the same on both ends. Why waste time, bandwidth, and storage capacity transfering common data? Does each proprietary software file contain every dotted "i" and crossed "t" depicted on a screen or printed on paper? No.

A true copy of the information delivered to the client or to any authorized party should be retained on the appraiser's computer and that information should be able to be recalled by the appraiser. If the information delivered to the client cannot be recalled by the appraiser on their computer, it would seem to me that the program which converted the information into the AIReady format is at fault. The converting program is the proprietary appraisal software program. I don't know enough about all the proprietary appraisal software program to comment if any or all of them retain the information converted to an AIReady format or not.

All this consternation about what file type represents a true copy is a dead end path. Does it really make any difference if the information is presented in a Word file, PDF file, ENV file, whatever file any of the numerous proprietary appraisal software programs create?

If I use DayOne for a year, decide I like alaMode software, convert all my DayOne files to alaMode files and erase the DayOne program from my computer, have I violated USPAP? Of course not. Why should it then be a violation to not retain the AIReady data if the information converted for that use is retained in the original software file type? If the converting program does not retain that information, it is the fault of the converting program. That program is the proprietary appraisal software.

Who here doesn't really think this is not about a conversion program, it's about data mining and power? One poster freely admits its about power. Numerous calls are mode t "take back our profession." Take it back from who and what? "Take it back" so we can give it to an Dodd/Crowley IVPI? I never did get an answer to my question to one party regarding the makeup of the leadership of the Dodd/Crowley proposed IVPI when that same party was adamantly stating that a single "Vault" should not be run by ANYONE associated with the real estate business. I don't know about anyone else, but I think appraisers are very much associated with the real estate business.

Others have already tried to fight FNC due to data mining. This isn't about a conversion program. If it was, it would not be just about AIReady.

I've spent enough time on this thread. I'm out.



Bye, Bye!:peace:
 
I agree, this thread contains lots of diversions, but at the end of the day it is really about fighting data mining.

Some have claimed it is about report security, yet one of the most insecure formats of all, PDF, is defended. Why? Because some perceive that using PDFs inhibits data mining (it really doesn't, by the way)

If appraisers are concerened about security all they need to do is use real digital signatures. If they want to fight against data mining, well, all I can say is good luck. And good luck getting every lender in America to use a single web storage vault. You would have a better chance of getting all appraisers to agree on something.

It is good to see involved appraisers who care about the profession, but energy is better spent on things that have a real chance of success.


Bye, Bye! :peace:
 
Well I am glad to see that Kenneth and DWiley can speak for all of us and know what all of our motives are. And I am also glad to see they are done with this thread, so that actual facts may not change their minds, after all lets not let facts get in the way.

1- My motives are based on SECURITY, not data mining, even though that is an important aspect as well, but takes a second seat to the security issue.

2- Nothing is wrong with the digital signatures, if they are as secure as advertised, we should be moving in that direction. But I have always heard, there is no such thing as a tamper proof software, so which is it? I am the first to admit, I do not have the expertise to know.

3- But what is wrong with a national database vault, so that the true copy of each and every report can be accessed when needed. It would bring the needed transparency to the lending process that is needed. Yes, PDF's are not as secure, but with this transparency, any changes will be for the entire world to see, the transparency is what yields the secuirty, not the software itself.

4- As for lenders not liking it, and not using it, there are a zillion other laws and guidelines, they have to follow, this will just be another one. I have to ask, why would they not like this "transparency" of the process, what are they wishing to hide? Dwiley, you even stated you have six different conversion programs on your computer for all the different lenders, NO IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT AI, this is about ALL of them.

5- Yes, data mining is an issue, another writer would or artist who created something, would like to think they actual "own" that creation, and to have others taking control of it and reselling it, goes against common sense. It is like a record store taking the best songs off of each artist's cds, combining them on a new CD and reselling the new CD with no profits going back to the artist. The end result is the music store makes a bundle of cash, while the artist receives zilch, and because of these new bogus CD's, it also cuts into the number of original CD's sold cutting into the artist profits even more. Most people would consider that stealing.

Yes, many appraisers get very emotional over this issue, but when ones report gets changed from the original by the conversion program enough where it feels like it is no longer their own report, THAT IS A PROBLEM. Then when these conversion programs open up the security issue of wondering what changes the report sees after it leaves our computers, THAT IS THE MAIN ISSUE AT HAND. And it is all done in the dark, no transparency at all, the appraiser just has to TRUST the system that has no transparency because we can not even obtain copies of our own reports to see what has gone on with them. And finally, the politically correct term of "data mining" is an issue, but most people with any business sense would consider it stealing instead of just data mining.

The entire lending community needs greater transparency which will lead to better accountability from ALL parties involved. The national vault would be a giant step in that direction, IMO anyone against greater transparency has other aggenda's then serving the Public Trust and the Appraisal professional as a whole.
 
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I wonder why DW is keeping his Software so secret? Maybe he want to be the only one compliant?

<Bond Theme plays in the background>

Because I have a special version written just for me. It was delivered by a special agent of AVM, Inc. on a night with no moon. Clients love it because no matter what I enter, it automatically changes the value to whatever number they need. It also sucks the data out of every report I even look at and deposits it directly into Black Box AVM. One special feature is that if I review someone else’s report it also automatically erases any copyright notice on the report I am reviewing and sucks the data out of it as well. It also constantly scans email servers on the Internet to intercepts files prepared by certain Forum participants just to mess with them.



I use Appraise-It by Software for Real Estate Professionals. I have used this software since the mid 1980s. I have tried all the major vendors, and just like this one best. I also know the owner of the company and believe that he has been a great supporter of appraisers.

Anyone with a working knowledge of the search feature could have discovered this in a few seconds (I posted the name of the software I use many months ago), so I don’t think it was much of a secret. Sorry for not responding – with over 300 posts it is hard to follow all the questions sometimes.
 
I agree, this thread contains lots of diversions, but at the end of the day it is really about fighting data mining.

Some have claimed it is about report security, yet one of the most insecure formats of all, PDF, is defended. Why? Because some perceive that using PDFs inhibits data mining (it really doesn't, by the way)

If appraisers are concerened about security all they need to do is use real digital signatures. If they want to fight against data mining, well, all I can say is good luck. And good luck getting every lender in America to use a single web storage vault. You would have a better chance of getting all appraisers to agree on something.

It is good to see involved appraisers who care about the profession, but energy is better spent on things that have a real chance of success.
Such a vault system would be easy to get lenders to agree to use. Just like getting all appraisers to agree to have a license, an act of congress will do the trick. :rof:
 
2- Nothing is wrong with the digital signatures, if they are as secure as advertised, we should be moving in that direction. But I have always heard, there is no such thing as a tamper proof software, so which is it? I am the first to admit, I do not have the expertise to know.

The bad news is that there is no such thing as absolute security. No matter what you do, a determined and capable person could defeat it. The good news is you only have to have enough security to deter most people. My locks and alarms system don't make it impossible to break into my house, but they certainly make it less attractive to attempt it.

I use digital signatures, but I don't use PKI digital signatures because I don't think it is necessary.

No matter what you do I can always buy forms software that allows me to create my own signature file. Then I just have to order one report from you and scan your signature. I could then produce reports that look like they were done by you. Any system can be beaten, and those determined to commit fraud will do so.

3- But what is wrong with a national database vault, so that the true copy of each and every report can be accessed when needed. It would bring the needed transparency to the lending process that is needed. Yes, PDF's are not as secure, but with this transparency, any changes will be for the entire world to see, the transparency is what yields the secuirty, not the software itself.

Nothing is wrong with the idea, per se. It would have been great 10 years ago before so many IT systems were in place. But in today's world I just don't see why lenders would agree to (or regulators would require) changing all their systems when simply using digital signatures accomplishes the same security goals.

? Dwiley, you even stated you have six different conversion programs on your computer for all the different lenders, NO IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT AI, this is about ALL of them.

Actually, I stated that I have bookmarks for six different upload sites. The only conversion software required is Adobe.
 
Does anyone know why we do not have this situation with Relo appraisals?
 
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