Virgina REAB and Portal Petition

[TJSum]

The bad news is that there is no such thing as absolute security. No matter what you do, a determined and capable person could defeat it. The good news is you only have to have enough security to deter most people. My locks and alarms system don't make it impossible to break into my house, but they certainly make it less attractive to attempt it.

I use digital signatures, but I don't use PKI digital signatures because I don't think it is necessary.

No matter what you do I can always buy forms software that allows me to create my own signature file. Then I just have to order one report from you and scan your signature. I could then produce reports that look like they were done by you. Any system can be beaten, and those determined to commit fraud will do so.



Nothing is wrong with the idea, per se. It would have been great 10 years ago before so many IT systems were in place. But in today's world I just don't see why lenders would agree to (or regulators would require) changing all their systems when simply using digital signatures accomplishes the same security goals.



Actually, I stated that I have bookmarks for six different upload sites. The only conversion software required is Adobe.

See the red highlight above, this is the way most appraisers feel about all of the conversion programs, it makes it easier for the middleman or client to make alterations (especially the AMC).

I am not following you completely on the digital signature argument. If they too can be manipulated in any fashion, it seems to argue for better transparency such as a national database vault.

Yes, lenders may not like it and may have to rework their software, but like I said, all parties involved and any business have to adapt to new laws and regulations all the time for the good of the greater cause, this might just be one of those times.

Sorry I misunderstood your earlier comment about six differnt conversion programs, but just wished to reassure you that this is not just pointed at AI, I know of at least one other major conversion program, not sure how many there are.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

The spin here has me dizzy.

* Transparency
* Full Disclosure
* NO alterations
* NO stealing


Any of you spinners ever think of a separate, non-real estate related, secured vault company???? There is a growing number to choose from.

Why was the Dodd/Crowley Proposal even brought up here? Is someone attempting to insinuate that George Dodd or Pamela Crowley are trying to secretly take over all the data theft and reselling from those that have already made millions on doing that???

Personally, I'm insulted by those insinuations along with the other one(s) that are about non-profit organizations that are going to pay their 'managers' huge salaries to rip off all the appraiser minions. Are the accusers using what they would do given the opportunity?????

I want transparency and full disclosure.

How many of my apparent and hidden detractors would go for that?????

 

[DWiley]

I am not following you completely on the digital signature argument. If they too can be manipulated in any fashion, it seems to argue for better transparency such as a national database vault.

Changing a regular old PDF file is child's play. Anyone could download the software, install it and make the changes all within a few minutes.

Truly defeating a PKI digital signature with a hardware authentication device is a project for the CIA, Air Force Cyber crimes unit, or someone of that ilk. It is like the difference between a Quick-set lock you bought at Home Depot and Fort Knox.

The point I was trying to make is that, even if your report is secure, someone could just buy forms software and pretend to be you. Anyone who would commit such an act would surely ignore any requirement about sending the report to a vault.

Carny is right in asserting that lenders would have to comply with a single vault system if Congress mandated it. I can see the puny, powerless, little lender lobbyists going to the Hill to explain that the cost of converting hundreds of IT systems would be passed on to the consumer, and that digital signatures would solve the problem just as easily. I mean really, what chance would the pitifully weak lender lobby have against the mighty appraiser lobby?

 

[TJSum]

Changing a regular old PDF file is child's play. Anyone could download the software, install it and make the changes all within a few minutes.

Truly defeating a PKI digital signature with a hardware authentication device is a project for the CIA, Air Force Cyber crimes unit, or someone of that ilk. It is like the difference between a Quick-set lock you bought at Home Depot and Fort Knox.

The point I was trying to make is that, even if your report is secure, someone could just buy forms software and pretend to be you. Anyone who would commit such an act would surely ignore any requirement about sending the report to a vault.

Carny is right in asserting that lenders would have to comply with a single vault system if Congress mandated it. I can see the puny, powerless, little lender lobbyists going to the Hill to explain that the cost of converting hundreds of IT systems would be passed on to the consumer, and that digital signatures would solve the problem just as easily. I mean really, what chance would the pitifully weak lender lobby have against the mighty appraiser lobby?

See red above, the client would HAVE to obtain the report from the vault, not directly from the appraiser. And once again, anyone higher up the food chain could also access the report from the vault.

See green above, what cost are involved converting the system to accept PDFs? Any caveman who owns a computer can do that. Maybe what you mean is the cost of regearing the system to data mine other formats from the conversion program? Is so, I doubt if anyone would be swayed by the lenders croccidle tears...

 

[Workbox]

It amazing how one that has served the ASB "to promote and preserve the public trust" is so concerned over the lenders time an effort having to make changes.

 

[Ken B]

The spin here has me dizzy.

* Transparency
* Full Disclosure
* NO alterations
* NO stealing


Any of you spinners ever think of a separate, non-real estate related, secured vault company???? There is a growing number to choose from.

Why was the Dodd/Crowley Proposal even brought up here? Is someone attempting to insinuate that George Dodd or Pamela Crowley are trying to secretly take over all the data theft and reselling from those that have already made millions on doing that???

Personally, I'm insulted by those insinuations along with the other one(s) that are about non-profit organizations that are going to pay their 'managers' huge salaries to rip off all the appraiser minions. Are the accusers using what they would do given the opportunity?????

I want transparency and full disclosure.

How many of my apparent and hidden detractors would go for that?????

This is freaking ridiculous.

Get over yourself.

 

[DWiley]

See red above, the client would HAVE to obtain the report from the vault, not directly from the appraiser.

And once they had it, whether they got it from the appraiser or the vault, they could do what they want. The vault would not change that. It would only provide an "authenticated" copy, which is what digital signatures already do.

See green above, what cost are involved converting the system to accept PDFs? Any caveman who owns a computer can do that. Maybe what you mean is the cost of regearing the system to data mine other formats from the conversion program?

It is not about accepting PDFs. As I said earlier, we upload to many portals, and they all currently accept PDFs. However, the interfaces used are VERY different. The issue would be getting all of the existing portals and proprietary web sites to communicate in a secure way with the "vault."

As for mining PDFs, that nut was cracked long ago. The vast majority of reports are submitted as PDFs, and many big lenders already have programs to read data from PDFs. I know from seeing it first hand that at least one large lender was doing this before AppraisalPort even existed.

 

[Maverick]

<Bond Theme plays in the background>

Because I have a special version written just for me. It was delivered by a special agent of AVM, Inc. on a night with no moon. Clients love it because no matter what I enter, it automatically changes the value to whatever number they need. It also sucks the data out of every report I even look at and deposits it directly into Black Box AVM. One special feature is that if I review someone else’s report it also automatically erases any copyright notice on the report I am reviewing and sucks the data out of it as well. It also constantly scans email servers on the Internet to intercepts files prepared by certain Forum participants just to mess with them.



I use Appraise-It by Software for Real Estate Professionals. I have used this software since the mid 1980s. I have tried all the major vendors, and just like this one best. I also know the owner of the company and believe that he has been a great supporter of appraisers.

Anyone with a working knowledge of the search feature could have discovered this in a few seconds (I posted the name of the software I use many months ago), so I don’t think it was much of a secret. Sorry for not responding – with over 300 posts it is hard to follow all the questions sometimes.

Dear DWiley,

I visited http://www.sfrep.com/company/ . Since you know the owner would he or you help me in understanding how I can retain or save that which I send through the OADI uploader? These are the steps I have attempted:

When the OADI report reviewer launched to show me the new version of the report, there is no way to print the report. There is only a button that enables the user to SAVE the report. But, only allows the user to save the report in one file format, "ENV"? file format. I did that and tried to open it as a text file and other than some header information, the rest of the file is jibberish, just like if you opened any binary file in a text editor.

I went back to the viewer to open the file I saved on my desktop and it wouldn't open it again. I view the new "version" of the report one time, then it's either deliver it or cancel it. But, the only way to "keep" a copy I agreed to deliver to the lender is if you save it to the ENV file format, and then I can't even go back and view that file with the OADI viewer.

It's the process I just walked through, at this point there is no way for me to print a copy of all the material transmitted so I can have in hand what is transmitted to the lender.

I think something was said in previous posts about being sure to view what is being sent before sending. But, I would appreciate the benefit and capacity to retain that which is/was sent?

Respectfully,

Maverick

 

[DWiley]

It amazing how one that has served the ASB "to promote and preserve the public trust" is so concerned over the lenders time an effort having to make changes.

I am not concerened about inconvenvience to lenders at all - I just recognize the reality of the situation. I don't see the wisdom of fighting a losing battle. A solution that cannot be implemented isn't really a solution.

Protecting public trust is why I so strongly push for the use of digital signatures - real ones.

 

[c w d]

Why not setup the vault so that the lender must submit the appraisal directly from the vault to their UW and investors? Make each interaction that the lender/client has with the appraisal a dead end. What I mean is if the lender needs a copy of the appraisal for the UW then the UW can pull a copy from the vault, make their review and/or stipulations. The appraiser makes the changes, resubmits to the vault. The client's investors/secondary market then pulls that updated copy as part of the loan submission process. The client can keep a copy of the appraisal on file but, is unable to submit their copies because that would not be accepted by the secondary market. Only the vault can submit copies to where the client requests.