When lender ask for additional comparables?

[Roy Courtney]

Webbed, you are very idealistic. My guess is your customer service skills are limited too. The "I said its worth $zzz and I'm the appraiser and I completed my job and I know more than you!!!!" attitude is extremely poor for the appraisal profession. It's poor for any profession. Bad business decision if you choose to act like that. You are far more likely to get future work from the client if you a) are professional to them on the phone, b)adhere to their reasonable requests (an extra comp is not unreasonable), and/or c)explain to them verbally and in writing why their request cannot be completed.

Roy, I have found that I never get calls requesting more comps after I give a detailed report, with the analysis and methodology explained in detail. Unfortunately many UW's or others in the mortgage/banking industry do not take the time to read the entire report. Its a flaw in the system, not in the appraisal (necessarily). I either explain where it can be found in the report, or give them an even more detailed explanation of the information they are requesting. Many appraisers don't take the time to do that, however.

If you guys have attitudes like that to your clients, I'm amazed you ever get any repeat business. It's about being professional and courteous.

If your value is put on a stick-it note and it helps make a loan you are a swell guy! If you write the great american novel explaining every detail to impress a PHD of economics that is great. However if the opinion helps make the loan you are a genus, if not, you are an idiot! The only time I get requests for more comps is when the value is lower than the sale price. Wonder why is dat?:new_all_coholic: And yes, my customer skills are pitiful. When I tell the mortgage broker I am not his "bi*ch" he does not recomend me for some reason?!? There really are people who want a true value, believe it or not! Some of us can be professional!

 

[Webbed Feet]

Webbed, you are very idealistic. My guess is your customer service skills are limited too. The "I said its worth $zzz and I'm the appraiser and I completed my job and I know more than you!!!!" attitude is extremely poor for the appraisal profession. It's poor for any profession. Bad business decision if you choose to act like that. You are far more likely to get future work from the client if you a) are professional to them on the phone, b)adhere to their reasonable requests (an extra comp is not unreasonable), and/or c)explain to them verbally and in writing why their request cannot be completed.
<....snip.....>

Well.. I WAS going to remain mild mannered until I got your above. While I appreciate all your saucy advice, I think what has become far worse for our entire trade is A) appraisers that can't figure out who it is that owns and operates their own businesses, them or some underwriter. If by professional you mean B) having one's lips sewn to the rump of the mortgage industry to the point of having become little more than a 'Yes Man" with a computer, you just have not set the standard high enough to call it a profession anyway. And if by reasonable you mean C) going through life with a "Please don't hurt me!" stamp on your forehead right next to the "I'll do anything you want!" sign around your collar ...

.... then my view is the trade needs many more like Brother Courtney and I. Appraisers with the gumption to be just as aggressive about engagement contract matters as those coming to us are being. They can't have it both ways, all their way, and then all their way. But you can work that one-way street if you wish.

 

[OminousRun]

If your value is put on a stick-it note and it helps make a loan you are a swell guy! If you write the great american novel explaining every detail to impress a PHD of economics that is great. However if the opinion helps make the loan you are a genus, if not, you are an idiot! The only time I get requests for more comps is when the value is lower than the sale price. Wonder why is dat?:new_all_coholic: And yes, my customer skills are pitiful. When I tell the mortgage broker I am not his "bi*ch" he does not recomend me for some reason?!? There really are people who want a true value, believe it or not! Some of us can be professional!

You still deal with mortgage brokers?

Funny, I have never gotten a call (from an underwriter/banker) when the appraised price is lower than the sales price.

A few Realtors have attempted to call me. I've even talked to a few (at the request of the client). I've never had one complain after I was done talking to them and explaining in detail to resolve any issues they may have.

Maybe the problem is lack of communication and/or writing skills? You don't have to be a D--k just because you're an appraiser. Too many appraisers act like a-holes to other people. I've had plenty of conversations with different homeowners/lenders/bankers/Realtors who said "zzz appraiser was a real jerk, he gave us such an attitude when all we were looking for was clarification on zzz". Too many appraisers act like a-holes to other appraisers too.

 

[HF Mudd]

You don't have to be a D--k just because you're an appraiser.

Are you sure about that? It just doesn't sound right.

 

[Roy Courtney]

You still deal with mortgage brokers?

Funny, I have never gotten a call (from an underwriter/banker) when the appraised price is lower than the sales price.

A few Realtors have attempted to call me. I've even talked to a few (at the request of the client). I've never had one complain after I was done talking to them and explaining in detail to resolve any issues they may have.

Maybe the problem is lack of communication and/or writing skills? You don't have to be a D--k just because you're an appraiser. Too many appraisers act like a-holes to other people. I've had plenty of conversations with different homeowners/lenders/bankers/Realtors who said "zzz appraiser was a real jerk, he gave us such an attitude when all we were looking for was clarification on zzz". Too many appraisers act like a-holes to other appraisers too.

I do not try to be an a-hole. When someone hires me to give my opinion of value (and then they want to tell me what my opinion is) it does create a problem. Does not matter what your communication or writing skills are, if it is NOT WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR you are an idiot! If your opinion does not "make" the deal close and put the money in their pocket you are wasting your time with an explanation. I try to treat other appraisers with respect. Sometimes it is not possible.

 

[OminousRun]

I do not try to be an a-hole. When someone hires me to give my opinion of value (and then they want to tell me what my opinion is) it does create a problem. Does not matter what your communication or writing skills are, if it is NOT WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR you are an idiot! If your opinion does not "make" the deal close and put the money in their pocket you are wasting your time with an explanation. I try to treat other appraisers with respect. Sometimes it is not possible.

I somebody calls asking for an extra comp to support the appraised value you provided them, it probably means there is a flaw in your report. Not having enough comps to support the opinion of value can be a flaw in the report. Who determines how many comps is enough? That is open for debate.

Calling an appraiser asking for extra comps specifically to support a higher value is a completely different topic. The two scenarios are not related.

 

[Roy Courtney]

I somebody calls asking for an extra comp to support the appraised value you provided them, it probably means there is a flaw in your report. Not having enough comps to support the opinion of value can be a flaw in the report. Who determines how many comps is enough? That is open for debate.

Calling an appraiser asking for extra comps specifically to support a higher value is a completely different topic. The two scenarios are not related.

I am providing an additional comp for a lender on a VA loan. The appraisal was prepared per USPAP and VA guidelines. However this lender has an investor that ("wants, demands, etc.) an additional comp. NO PROBLEM, one more comp = $100.00. more. I can do that all day and it does not hurt my feelings! When it is MY report, I determine how many comps to use. (Why are you is such a hurry to determine that there is a flaw in your work product?) Just curious.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

I think using the subject prior sale as a comparable would be bothersome to me. Yes I know it is the best comparable, but other sales are necessary to support the value conclusion ... and if that takes extras then it takes extras.

We are in a service business ... when clients have questions those questions should be answered. Can it get rediculous ... yes ... but then again when so many take the position its their value or the highway I believe lenders should choose the highway and select another appraiser.
While many appraisers see the lender as the devil incarnate .. I believe there are many that have questions and want additional support for legitimate reasons.

Ive been in the business a long time and I understand customer service and I believe a bit of politeness and doing all possible to assist the client in understanding YOUR value is important. It is YOUR value opinion ... and providing further support should not be an issue, assuming of course, there is additional data you considered but did not include.

 

[Roy Courtney]

PE,
I agree with some of that but not all. I have to say it depends on the assignment and the day. I do not mind working with a client who has a need for more detail than was in my report. If the client wants more and more comps because that is what they were taught to ask for in "undermonkey" school I have a problem. I promise that I have without a doubt made some clients mad. Some have made me mad! I remember a guy called wanting to hire me for a court case. I asked who his attorney was. When he told me I said that I better not take the assignment as his attorney and I did not get along. He then told me that it was his attorney who told him to call me. You never know!

 

[Michigan CG]

The problem with adding an extra comp is one of three scenarios:

• The information provided does not support the value opinion.
• Appraiser does not want to provide any additional information because the fee they accepted was too low to do any additional work.
• They choose to work for a client that is unreasonable and should have built the anticipated request into their fee.

I don't see any other reasons.

If you provide minimum work because of fees you are not doing your job.

If you don't support your value with reasonable comps or do not write extensive narrative supporting your opinion value when good comps do not exist then you are not doing your job.

If you make a choice to work for clients that make you bracket the number of rug fibers in the report then you need to set your fee accordingly.