Are we required to obtain permits?

[Lee Lansford]

Interesting responses here.....and a clear indication there are differences in each market. You need to know yours.

Yep, no doubt about it.

 

[normando]

Whether the market gives value for unpermitted and you have comps to show market willing to pay for finished basement, then the value is there. It's the client's decision whether they want an unpermitted finished basement.

 

[Vermonter]

Yep, no doubt about it.

In 99% of the area I work, when you look up what is legally permissible under zoning regs you'll find- "Residential and agricultural uses". If they're really strict, you might find minimum lot sizes, state maintained road frontage and setback requirements.

 

[normando]

I will be seeing a property with finished basement. I don't know what I will do until I see the permits. Each property is unique.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

IF the governing municipality in fact HAS a mandatory building code compliance ordinance:

Mine would also be $100k (as the finished basement existed as of the EDA) based on an Extraordinary Assumption that the site improvements which exist - including the finished basement - represent a Legal Use and subject to municipal compliance confirmation by the owner or the Client. Should Municipal confirmation clearly indicate to the contrary, re-appraisal will be required.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Whether the market gives value for unpermitted and you have comps to show market willing to pay for finished basement, then the value is there. It's the client's decision whether they want an unpermitted finished basement.

Which Definition of Highest and Best Use does an illegal finished basement fall under?

p.s. the property you will be going to see is located where? Which governing Municipality?

 

[Mike Kennedy]

In 99% of the area I work, when you look up what is legally permissible under zoning regs you'll find- "Residential and agricultural uses". If they're really strict, you might find minimum lot sizes, state maintained road frontage and setback requirements.

Where in Vermont? A Municipal example for discussion?List of towns in Vermont - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_Vermont
The state of Vermont has 255 political units, or "places". This includes 237 towns, 9 cities, 5 unincorporated areas, and 4 gores. Unincorporated towns are those ...

Vermont.gov - Business - Licenses and Permits - Building and ...

www.vermont.gov › Home › Business › Licenses and Permits
The Official Website of the State of Vermont - Your gateway to information about living, working, visiting, ... A Guide to Building, Construction, and Occupancy Permits in Vermont GOV External Link ... Fire & Building Codes GOV External Link ...

Vermont Building Codes

www.reedconstructiondata.com/building-codes/vermont/
Reference library of Vermont building codes and amendments. ... Plumbing Code, IPC 2003 (2005 State of Vermont Plumbing Rules), Vermont Dept. of Public ...Vermont Building Code : State of Vermont : Free Download ...archive.org › ... › Global Public Safety Codes

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

I say $100k. If the market doesn't care about no stinking permits, I'd value it as such, disclose lack of permits, and move on. The lender can decide if they are OK with the non permitted basement.


Maybe they see it as a risk factor apart from value.
It would go in your adverse factors summary.
If anyone did those anymore. :laugh:

 

[Mike Kennedy]

I say $100k. If the market doesn't care about no stinking permits, I'd value it as such, disclose lack of permits, and move on. The lender can decide if they are OK with the non permitted basement.


Maybe they see it as a risk factor apart from value.
It would go in your adverse factors summary.
If anyone did those anymore. :laugh:

"According to the California Building Code, no building or structure shall be erected, constructed, enlarged, altered, repaired, moved, improved, removed, converted or demolished unless a separate permit for each building or structure has first been obtained from the building official. Code requirements vary in different cities and counties around the state. Check with your local building department to find out what's needed in your area. You may want to check city, county and/or town if necessary."
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/consumers/hireacontractor/BuildingPermitRequirements.asp

p.s. as 1 illustrative example: re Reseda

"Los Angeles Municipal Code Section 96.300 requires that the seller of residential property provide an RPR to the buyer before entering into an agreement of sale or exchange of residential property or prior to the close of escrow in connection therewith. There is a fee of $70.20 for each report requested."
http://cris.lacity.org/cris/informationcenter/code/index.htm

Building Construction Permits Provider: Department of Building and Safety
Categories: Permits, Licenses, and Inspections: Construction Permits and Inspections
Description
The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety is responsible for issuing construction permits such as building, plumbing, electrical, pressure vessel, elevator, heating, ventilating and air conditioning permits. A permit from the Department of Building and Safety is required for private property construction, alteration or repair work on buildings within the City of Los Angeles. For information on obtaining a permit, please visit the Department of Building and Safety website at www.ladbs.org.(The Department of Building and Safety is not responsible for issuing permits for public streets, public alleys or public right-of-ways.)
Webpage: http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/services-permit.jsf

Building Permit Clearance Handbook Provider: Department of Building and Safety
Categories: Construction Reference/Resources; Information, Records & Archives
Description
This handbook is a consolidation of all departmental clearances needed based on the type of project and its location. It provides plan checker engineers with the necessary information to properly refer permit applicants to the correct office for departmental clearance.
Webpage: http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/LADBS_Forms/Publications/clearance_handbook.pdf

"The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety (LADBS) is tasked with the maintenance of the City’s building stock through the enforcement of building, electrical, mechanical, plumbing and zoning codes which are elements of the Los Angeles Municipal Code (LAMC). The basic methodology of enforcement is the issuance of an Order to Comply (OTC) to the property owner and any other person in control of a property who violates or causes or permits another person to violate any provision or requirement of the LAMC. The OTC is essentially a warning letter with a time frame for voluntary compliance. The OTC describes the violation(s), instructions to remedy the violation(s) and warnings of possible penalty fees and criminal prosecution. Violation of the LAMC is a misdemeanor and code enforcement cases must therefore be prepared for the possibility of being resolved in Los Angeles Superior Court. "

http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/services-code-enforcement.jsf

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Yes, I have read that stuff, both as an appraiser and a home owner. You are supposed to get a permit for something as small and simple as replacing a light fixture. Please.

If you upgrade your electric service from the old 60 amps to 200, you need a permit, DWP has to come out and run a new wire from power pole to house. We got the house copper repiped, the plumber got a permit. Same plumber, sewer line partial replacement for a couple grand or so. I asked about permit after pipes installed but not buried, he spit a little chewing tobacco and said, it's just a little sewer repair. We both took pics of the work, and they filled in the trench.

Anyway, my point is, the City of LA has a lot of rules, but not so much enforcement. Not such a good plan to build an addition to the house without permits. But a garage conversion w/o permit is likely to never get their attention by itself. Gutting the whole thing and rebuilding probably wouldn't either.

Much of the market doesn't care about permits for small and even medium stuff, I have to recognize the environment I'm in. I am not the permit police. That's a job for Building and Safety. Hopefully not too many are on the take.

The one we saw for approval of the new electric panel mainly hit us for lack of address numbers on the house. The panel was fine. The B&S guy that approved the foundation bolting stuck head and shoulders into the crawl for a peek, but that's about it. Enforcement is shall we say, weak and spotty at best.

And MK, I wish all Cities had a site like this.

https://www.permitla.org/ipars/The_nonscript_index.cfm

Although you may or may not find your subject in there, and the info is not complete. Better than nada at least.