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When Customary Fees Become Unreasonable

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T, it's beyond absurd to compare appraisals with their dinky fees and status as a professional product with oil or gold, international products traded world wide with huge profits in the billions for providers.

Stop denying history; world wide, EVERY govt has enormous input into regulations, pricing/policy and taxation which affect businesses. Virtually every nation in the world has a minimum wage and/or collective bargaining present as well.

Please keep the topic on appraisals and stop dragging in such a broad international vastly different commodity comparison.
 
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Stop denying history; world wide, EVERY govt has enormous input into regulations, pricing/policy and taxation which affect businesses. Virtually every nation in the world has a minimum wage and/or collective bargaining present as well.
Very few countries set minimum fees for professionals-perhaps N. Korea. Obviously, you think that we are not professionals...only tradesmen.

Customary fees are the theme of the thread. Who sets them? Name a single country that sets appraisal fees. Why do Chartered Surveyors in Britain get the equivalent of $900 for an appraisal? Is it because of government policy? Why do I not get pressure on price and turn time from anyone EXCEPT bank clients? Again, if you ignore that history, then you are doomed to repeat it.

Appraisers who demand C & R are the same ones who caved in to low fees in the first place. They need a nanny. The rest of appraisers don't but they are harmed by all of YOU that took $200 fees back in 2009-2012...don't blame the government for that, nor even the AMC.

If we all need Uncle Sugar to take care of us, then we need to be lobbying for status as an officer or agent of the court protected by administrative law and a fee set by the court itself. After all they are going to have to file the papers in the court, so why not add a little $15 fee and allow the courts to pick the appraiser? You know why.
 
Some of ya'll are brainwashed. There a few banks who love you, but many of them wish you would move to China, Russia, or North Korea. LOL

:rof::rof:

:sad:
 
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"Why is I do not get pressure on price and turn time from anyone EXCEPT bank clients? "

Do you fail to recognize that the minimum fee is meant ONLY for work to bank clients, (which is affected by fee splits), the very ones you get fee pressure from? It would not apply to any other appraisal work.

i have no idea why fees are as high in Uk as they are, therefore I can't comment if any govt or trade policy affects it.

The better question is why are bank work fees so LOW in the USA? We all know why and are proposing a solution.
 
The better question is why are bank work fees so LOW in the USA?

Because there are enough appraisers willing to accept said low fees to fulfill demand at that price point.
 
Because there are enough appraisers willing to accept said low fees to fulfill demand at that price point.

NO, because for decades appraisal fees were not an issue..the borrower made a check out to appraiser or full fee was passed along. It was only after the HVCC with third party ordeing/AMC involvement ratcheted up that appraisal fees started being driven down to afford profit to the third parties who were now splitting the fees.

Did you think the majority of appraisers doing lender work woke up one day and decided to accept lower fees than they ever made historically? Appraisers across the nation woke up one day post HVCC and decided to accept dramatically lower fees? Do you really think that is what happened?

Or was the work flow manipulated to coerce this lowering of fees, by systematically positioning as many appraisers as possible into the option of accept lower fees, or get ZERO work?
 
'Rip-off' valuation fees hurt buyers and surveyors
An inquiry into property valuations has been launched amid complaints that lenders are exploiting borrowers and surveyors.

Despite charging hundreds of pounds for a valuation, banks and building societies regularly keep most of the fee, paying as little as £55 to surveyors for each property assessment.

This has led to delays in home valuations as many surveyors refuse to work for such small sums, holding up mortgage applications.

The lack of money and time pressure also forces some surveyors to do 'desktop' valuations where they simply check a local property website rather than inspecting a property in person.

In other words, borrowers are paying through the nose for a sub-standard or slow service.

Mortgage valuations are not optional as they confirm to the lender that the property is worth what is being paid by the borrower. Fees are paid upfront by the potential homebuyer and are non-refundable if the purchase falls through.

Of the top four lenders only HSBC was prepared to disclose the amount it takes from its mortgage valuation fee.

‘We have a £35 admin fee and the rest goes to the surveyor,’ said a HSBC spokeswoman.’ We take a flat fee to cover our costs and the rest goes to the surveyors on our panel. We have two surveyors on the panel.’

However, Halifax, Nationwide and Barclays said the setting of valuation fees was a commercial arrangement and cited confidentiality issues for refusing to disclose how much they take.

All lenders have tiered rates, charging bigger valuation fees for more expensive properties.

For a £250,000 property HSBC charges a valuation fee of £197 compared to Nationwide’s £285, Barclays’ £355 and Halifax’s £400.

For a £400,000 property HSBC charges £263 compared to Nationwide’s £385, Barclays’ £450 and Halifax’s £525.

A Stockport-based valuer, who wished to remain anonymous, said he would charge £275 plus VAT for a private mortgage valuation. He added it was standard practice for a lender to charge around £380 to value a £100,000 pound property but give the valuer just £125 inclusive of VAT.

‘Half of the fee is going to the bank as an administration fee but I don’t know why because it is their job to organise the valuation,’ he said.

The valuer no longer works with banks, which typically have a panel of surveyors that outsource the work to local independent surveyors. Because they pay so poorly he said he would have to value 1,000 properties in 12 months in order to make £60,000 a year.

He said there fewer local surveyors are willing or able to work on bank mortgage valuations meaning there are long delays for borrowers. These delays, which can be up to five weeks in some areas, cause property deals to fall through.

The surveyor accused some lenders of 'ripping off' consumers with the practice of 'desktop' valuations.

He said it would make more sense if borrowers could provide a full survey or homebuyers' report that they have commissioned privately and use it to prove the worth of a property to a bank rather than ‘shelling out’ for both a private survey and a mortgage valuation.

‘Banks don’t accept individual mortgage valuations but they need to accept structural surveys, why should the customer shell out twice?’ he said.

Solving the problem
The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (Rics) has launched a consultation to look at the problems with mortgage valuations in response to mounting concerns from its members about delays and unfair terms from lenders.

‘There are some members telling us it is not worth their while [to do mortgage valuations] and that goes back to needing a better balance.’
http://citywire.co.uk/money/rip-off-valuation-fees-hurt-buyers-and-surveyors/a696623

Well gosh Wally,
How did one guy get £900 when everyone else get's £55?

Couldn't be the quoted Appraisal Fee included the AMC or Bank split?? Could it?



.
 
They don't just have NO DEMAND for you that is not forced. They don't like you. Get over it and quit being brainwashed. I have to put a disclaimer that there are a few exceptions.
 
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Do you fail to recognize that the minimum fee is meant ONLY for work to bank clients, (which is affected by fee splits), the very ones you get fee pressure from? It would not apply to any other appraisal work.
Bank work tends to set the competition fee. Lawyers are not unaware of those fees because they get to see the closing papers if they do any RE law. Banks via FHA and Fannie also set the very format. How many posts over the years and come in and asked "what form do I use...blah blah blah"... And it seems to always be a form as "narrative" goes right over the head of most appraisers. And, last but certainly not least, the reports themselves are governed first by the lenders and then by USPAP and those two masters are not necessary perfectly dovetailed resulting in attempting to satisfy both. Bank fees should be top fees based upon work and the extent of the typical engagement letter. Lawyers make better clients and pay better than bankers. The SOW is less, the fee is more, and the liability is a fraction that of a bank appraisal going to secondary market.
And yes, it was the appraiser, ultimately, that accepted these low fees and in doing so, cut not only their own throat but all their buddies throats as well... Death by a thousand cuts.
 
"Lawyers make better clients and pay better than bankers. The SOW is less, the fee is more, and the liability is a fraction that of a bank appraisal going to secondary market.
And yes, it was the appraiser, ultimately, that accepted these low fees and in doing so, cut not only their own throat but all their buddies throats as well... Death by a thousand cuts."


Should be posted EACH and every time a thread discussion on duhpraiser's fees is started.

Well said, Mr. Shields.
 
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