The Appraiser Shortage Myth Part 43

[DWiley]

..it is also an AMC issue, because AMC agrees to be paid in a fee split manner,

I have no such "fee split" agreement with ANY client. I don't know how many times I can tell you that what I bill the lender has NOTHING to do with any arrangement they have with the borrower. I am not "fee splitting" - I just charge what is due. If you have issues with how the lenders arranges to pay, take it up with the lender.

If I send a bill to lender that says, for example, $400 appraisal + $150 Management fee = $550 total fee, then the lender owes $550, period. What they have (or have not) collected from anyone else does not affect what they owe.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

David W, the laws you speak about fees, capping and percentages applies to RE sales and brokerage, not to appraisals - (though some could argue the law could apply).

I don't have to argue that the law could apply, because it is a fact that the same laws apply, therefore there is nothing to argue about.

However, surely you realize the laws around agency and commission and brokerage are very different than the specific regulations around appraisals, and even more specifically the set of regulations around covered transactions ( tax payer insured such as FHA, Fannie etc - and they have their own regs)

Laws specific to appraisers are different than laws specific to real estate brokerage. But that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. The fact that brokers, appraisers, and other professional cannot set fees as a group are based on the same set of federal laws. And that is why you'll NEVER hear discussions regarding setting fees (or fixing percentages of fees, which is exactly the same thing) at the meetings of NAR, AI, or other meetings of professional organizations.

 

[gregb]

I don't have to argue that the law could apply, because it is a fact that the same laws apply, therefore there is nothing to argue about.



Laws specific to appraisers are different than laws specific to real estate brokerage. But that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. The fact that brokers, appraisers, and other professional cannot set fees as a group are based on the same set of federal laws. And that is why you'll NEVER hear discussions regarding setting fees (or fixing percentages of fees, which is exactly the same thing) at the meetings of NAR, AI, or other meetings of professional organizations.

Does what you say apply to AMC's in terms of setting fees?

 

[J Grant]

I don't have to argue that the law could apply, because it is a fact that the same laws apply, therefore there is nothing to argue about.



Laws specific to appraisers are different than laws specific to real estate brokerage. But that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. The fact that brokers, appraisers, and other professional cannot set fees as a group are based on the same set of federal laws. And that is why you'll NEVER hear discussions regarding setting fees (or fixing percentages of fees, which is exactly the same thing) at the meetings of NAR, AI, or other meetings of professional organizations.

And I NEVER said to set a fixed fee that the AMC can charge a lender- the AMC can charge whatever fee they want to the lende rand lender can pay it. The only thing that would change is the amount of that money the lender can get from the borrower paid. Which would have to be a regulation or interpretation of the law specific to the appraisal, AMC and fee arrangement unique to mortgage lending.

 

[timd354]

I never made such a claim, but I appreciate you spending so much time attacking a false premise.

She spends a lot of time attacking a lot of false premises. That is just what she does and will continue to do which is one of the many reasons that she is the undisputed champion bulk poster month after month after month.

 

[J Grant]

I have no such "fee split" agreement with ANY client. I don't know how many times I can tell you that what I bill the lender has NOTHING to do with any arrangement they have with the borrower. I am not "fee splitting" - I just charge what is due. If you have issues with how the lenders arranges to pay, take it up with the lender.

If I send a bill to lender that says, for example, $400 appraisal + $150 Management fee = $550 total fee, then the lender owes $550, period. What they have (or have not) collected from anyone else does not affect what they owe.

I never said what you bill as an AMC has anything with the arrangement a lender has with a borrower. But surely you know that the $ you get from the lender is a pass through from what the borrower paid? You do see the fee disclosures on appraisals about the fee splits where states require it, correct? .,
$400 appraisal + $150 Management fee = $550 total fee,
The above you posted is a fee split ! ( the $550 total fee is what borrower paid, yes or no)

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Then AMC;s can compete in the market like they keep telling appraisers to., make as much or as little as lenders will pay them- just get their payment and fee totally separate from what is paid to appraiser from lender.

My disdain for the major residential AMCs is well known. However, AMCs do compete in the market, and so do appraisers. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to do anything. AMCs most certainly have taken advantage of the oversupply of appraisers; however, everything goes in cycles, that situation is temporary, and appears to be currently, slowly tipping in the other direction.

 

[timd354]

I have no such "fee split" agreement with ANY client. I don't know how many times I can tell you that what I bill the lender has NOTHING to do with any arrangement they have with the borrower. .

It does not matter how many times you tell her the facts and realities of your business, she just simply won't accept any facts that do not fit her narrative. She shares that trait with quite a few posters here on the AF.

The other thing is that I bet that she outlasts you in this argument, lol (assuming that this thread does not get shut down)

 

[J Grant]

If I send a bill to lender that says, for example, $400 appraisal + $150 Management fee = $550 total fee, then the lender owes $550, period. What they have (or have not) collected from anyone else does not affect what they owe.

Whatever they collected from borrower, I take it from above the lender "owes" your AMC the $550? And from that you pay the appraiser $400. If your arrangement is from lender that they owe you $ 550 per appraisal, and from that you pay the appraiser, do you break down the amounts when you bill the lender, or you just bill the lender $ and they leave it up to you what to pay the appraiser?

For example, you say SL pays the appraiser the appraiser's fee ( their fee) and appraisers have different fees. So if you paid the appraiser their fee of $300, SL would still bill the lender $550?

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Does what you say apply to AMC's in terms of setting fees?

AMCs don't set fees. It most certainly appears they will go out of their way to get certain assignments done for certain fees. However, the appraiser is free to negotiate, and the AMC will negotiate if nobody accepts the assignments at their suggested fee.

I get a few requests from unsolicited request from AMCs each month, from names we've all come to know and love. They ask me for my fee and TT, and there is no suggestion of fee or TT on the request.