Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[glenn walker]

No matter what the opinion is of college degrees it has nothing to do with geographic competence and frankly George is a little behind the times I live adjacent two college towns and they are Ivy league $100K-$150K a year and at least 65% of the students are minorities and at our local community and State colleges 75% are minorities so that train left the station about 25 years ago. As for college graduates to get into appraising it's not going to happen because this was always a cottage industry where most appraisers came in as apprentices because either a friend or family member was an-appraiser and it's not a glamorous position to hold anymore especially for residential appraisers.

 

[djd09]

In the past four years alone, JPMorgan Chase has paid out $35,735,254,670 in fines and settlements for fraudulent and illegal practices. You could be next.

http://jpmadoff.com/

Do you want to gamble on being JPMC’s next victim?
Click on any group of JPMC customers in the roulette wheel and you will see how much JPMC has been forced to pay that group to settle claims that JPMC committed fraud or violations of law, just in the last five years. The total comes to $36 billion.

VETERANS
$659,000,000
In March 2012, JPMC paid the federal government a $45 million fine to settle charges that it charged veterans hidden fees in mortgage refinancing transactions.

In February 2014, JPMC agreed to pay $614,000,000 to settle charges asserted by the United States Attorney’s Officer for the Southern District of New York, the Federal Housing Administration, the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the United States Department of Veteran Affairs resolving False Claims Act, FIRREA and other civil and administrative liability for FHA and VA insurance claims that have been paid to JP Morgan Chase since 2002 through the date of settlement.

http://jpmadoff.com/victims/

It is unbelievable.

 

[George Hatch]

From the outset, I based my opinion on qualifications on what I have personally seen from thousands of course participants who came through my CE courses over the years - and yes, their license numbers and home addresses were part of their student records and showed up on every one of the class rolls. Moreover, I can read the license numbering sequence itself well enough to know how many years they havd been in the business at that point. And you want to bear in mind that I was teaching all through the big push when the number of SL/CR in my state almost doubled, so I had a lot of working trainees in my courses too, because they also had to maintain their CE requirements, even if they weren't working.

I developed and taught the upgrade course we offered to SLs so they could get their CRs prior to the 2008 deadline, so those groups were nothing BUT SLs who wouldn't qualify as CRs after the 2yr degree kicked in.

So I most certainly could see who was who, in real time, and I do know what I'm talking about. Besides Danny and one other poster there isn't anyone in this thread who has had that much exposure to appraisers in a CE setting. Most of you don't know WTF you're talking about.

I think it's ironic that one of the most vocal critics of my opinions about qualifications is listed on this forum as an SL, which regardless of whether that is currently accurate still means that they weren't qualified to hold the CR when they joined the forum, but now they want the doors slammed behind them to protect their interests from other peple with the same level of qualifications he was operating with. And I should add that I have no reason to believe his work in the past or in the present has been anything but adequate to purpose.

I note that a couple of the other appraisers who have participated in this thread have ALWAYS impressed me with their thinking and their commentary despite not having the degree when they started appraising or when they joined this forum. IIRC I think one of them cracked my personal top-ten list within the first week of his participation here.

So some of the sanctimonious hypocrisy that's going on here strikes me as being truly annoying, and if the people who are engaging in that think their intellectual inconsistency is passing without notice they can forget it.

 

[J Grant]

No matter what the opinion is of college degrees it has nothing to do with geographic competence and frankly George is a little behind the times I live adjacent two college towns and they are Ivy league $100K-$150K a year and at least 65% of the students are minorities and at our local community and State colleges 75% are minorities so that train left the station about 25 years ago. As for college graduates to get into appraising it's not going to happen because this was always a cottage industry where most appraisers came in as apprentices because either a friend or family member was an-appraiser and it's not a glamorous position to hold anymore especially for residential appraisers.

The link between the two is the parallel course that geo competency issue might follow the same path as the college degree issue- it starts out as a debate, information is gathered, then a comment period is opens at the AQB based on that information. Appraisers are providing answers about geo competence that might be expanded into changes they did not intend for their answers, as was their responses /comments about college degree used as a basis to also drop the AA degree, and training and hours of experience.

 

[George Hatch]

The link between the two is the parallel course that geo competency issue might follow the same path as the college degree issue- it starts out as a debate, information is gathered, then a comment period is opens at the AQB based on that information. Appraisers are providing answers about geo competence that might be expanded into changes they did not intend for their answers, as was their responses /comments about college degree used as a basis to also drop the AA degree, and training and hours of experience.

You keep making that allegation without any understanding that the AQB doesn't need a poll with 75-100 respondents on this forum to take up a direction of consideration or to make a decision. They don't need it. Inasmuch as some of the appraisers who checked the different categories didn't even read the instructions or answer accurately we can't even tell exactly how many people responded. So get over it. The issues I raised existed before the products you're sniveling about came along and we have been talking about it WRT reviewers for at least the last 20 years since mortgage lending moved away from the locally-based lenders making loan decisions in their own backyards.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

IMO, the term geo-competency, not unlike many terms and concepts in appraisal, has been taken to an unrealistic degree. I think the idea behind the creation of the term was to curb the practice of appraisers traveling long distances. Apparently some people automatically feel that once you travel a certain distance, your abilities to analyze a market appropriately get left behind. My view is that no appraiser is going to be 100% geo-competent 100% of the time. The reason I believe this, is that in order to be 100% geo-competent in an area, you would really need to have a very intimate knowledge of the area, for instance being a long-time resident. It is unrealistic that appraisers would only complete assignments in their own neighborhoods, at least under the current structure of awarding assignments, and also with the need to make a consistent living in mind. As with many things in appraisal, if one does not account for the fact that perfection is impossible, the expectations become unrealistic.

 

[Joe Flacco]

From the outset, I based my opinion on qualifications on what I have personally seen from thousands of course participants who came through my CE courses over the years - and yes, their license numbers and home addresses were part of their student records and showed up on every one of the class rolls. Moreover, I can read the license numbering sequence itself well enough to know how many years they havd been in the business at that point. And you want to bear in mind that I was teaching all through the big push when the number of SL/CR in my state almost doubled, so I had a lot of working trainees in my courses too, because they also had to maintain their CE requirements, even if they weren't working.

I developed and taught the upgrade course we offered to SLs so they could get their CRs prior to the 2008 deadline, so those groups were nothing BUT SLs who wouldn't qualify as CRs after the 2yr degree kicked in.

So I most certainly could see who was who, in real time, and I do know what I'm talking about. Besides Danny and one other poster there isn't anyone in this thread who has had that much exposure to appraisers in a CE setting. Most of you don't know WTF you're talking about.

I think it's ironic that one of the most vocal critics of my opinions about qualifications is listed on this forum as an SL, which regardless of whether that is currently accurate still means that they weren't qualified to hold the CR when they joined the forum, but now they want the doors slammed behind them to protect their interests from other peple with the same level of qualifications he was operating with. And I should add that I have no reason to believe his work in the past or in the present has been anything but adequate to purpose.

I note that a couple of the other appraisers who have participated in this thread have ALWAYS impressed me with their thinking and their commentary despite not having the degree when they started appraising or when they joined this forum. IIRC I think one of them cracked my personal top-ten list within the first week of his participation here.

So some of the sanctimonious hypocrisy that's going on here strikes me as being truly annoying, and if the people who are engaging in that think their intellectual inconsistency is passing without notice they can forget it.

Your whole argument is that licensing criteria should accommodate the 20% of non-degreed people that are very capable even if that means another 80% who may not be capable become licensed. It's ridiculous.

 

[J Grant]

You keep making that allegation without any understanding that the AQB doesn't need a poll with 75-100 respondents on this forum to take up a direction of consideration or to make a decision. They don't need it. Inasmuch as some of the appraisers who checked the different categories didn't even read the instructions or answer accurately we can't even tell exactly how many people responded. So get over it. The issues I raised existed before the products you're sniveling about came along and we have been talking about it WRT reviewers for at least the last 20 years since mortgage lending moved away from the locally-based lenders making loan decisions in their own backyards.

It can be an observation, not an allegation. The AQB may not need the results of a poll here but no proof they, or those who interact with them will not use the results. The fact is, however one wants to see it, that the drop the 4 year degree started as debates, with many views formed in the debates continued in the comment period, with those sending in comments not cognizant that their opinions could and would be used to drop other requirements, not just the 4 year degree.

The issues I raised re the product I am "sniveling" about ( loaded word, try this, a product I am talking about ), the product in question, bifurcated, has not been up for consideration for widespread lender origination use and Fannie acceptance until now. .

 

[George Hatch]

As for the whining about TAF accepting input from all types of user groups that's exactly what they're SUPPOSED to do. How does does a standards board establish standards that must apply to assignments across the entire spectrum of users in government and commerce without understanding how they use those services?

Does anyone here really think the Financial Accounting Standards Board does it's thing with accounting standards without considering input from it's various types of users? Of course not. Can the Government Accounting Standards Board do it's thing without soliciting input and feedback from the various governmental entities? Of course not.

A standards board that is insular and which ONLY accepts input from it's own members would render itself, it's standards and the interests of the professionals who cite those standards obsolete in short order.

As for complaining about "accepting input", so what? Just because I ask a broker for a list of their favorite comps doesn't mean I have a predetermined intention of using any of those comps soley because they provided them. I'm not on their team. i just want to make sure I don't miss anything, and I want to put myself into the position of being able to respond to any complaints they might have about my decision not taking their opinions into consideration with a "yeah, I saw those data, I just thought they were irrelevant to what I'm doing". Or "I saw those sales, but I already knew about the one I included in my report".

 

[George Hatch]

Your whole argument is that licensing criteria should accommodate the 20% of non-degreed people that are very capable even if that means another 80% who may not be capable become licensed. It's ridiculous.

Like I said, you literally have no clue about what you're talking about here. My opinion may be incomplete, but it's at least based on 15 years of teaching CE courses to people like you. Heck, I accrued over 2000 hours of teaching time in USPAP alone. That doesn't count the other 20 courses offerings I was also teaching. I was in front of roomfuls of people like you almost every week. So don't presume to guess at some 80/20 split when you have had zero exposure to the issue and are completely ignorant on what appraisers do and don't know about what they do.