Significant Appraisal Assistance (1004p)

[J Grant]

Exactly. And that is why measurement by a non-appraiser is not, and cannot, be significant real property appraisal assistance - because such assistance is only provided by an appraiser

You \mixing in two different concepts. Measurements by a non appraiser for a COMP is not concern of USPAP.,, nor is anything else other parties did regarding a comp, Those people ( RE agents, assessors etc ) were not appraisers , AND they were not measuring for appraisal purpose, they were measuring for THEIR professional purpose ( listing, tax millage rate etc)

Movingon from a comp to the subject of an appraisal, t USPAP does address measuring of subject in FAQ 31- It says an individual is not providing significant appraisal assistance if that individual writes down measurements appraiser provides.

USPAP FAQ does not address the question "Is an individual providing significant appraisal assistance if that indviual MEASURED the property for the appraisal use?
They are two different sets of activities - 1) The individual writes down measurements appraiser provides or , 2) the individual measures and provides them to the appraiser)

A USPAP FAQ is needed for measuring vs wirting down measurements providing by the appraiser .

 

[J Grant]

Only appraisers are under USPAP but whats crazy is we are not even allowed to have a trainee do the inspections unless we are holding his/her hand which defeated the whole process of training new appraisers.

Only appraisers are under USPAP, but how an appraiser uses assistants and discloses it in report , (including using non appraisers ,) is part of USPAP compliance for an appraiser-

Did an appraiser tell an assistant to pull comps the appraiser provided and type them in grid? Or did appraiser tell assistant, go pick the comps and type them in grid?

Regarding measuring, USPAP FAQ does not address what level of assistance applies when a non appraiser measures subject -- FAQ only answers that it is considered not significant assistance if a non appraiser (individual) writes down measurements the appraiser provides.

 

[DWiley]

They are two different sets of activities - 1) The individual writes down measurements appraiser provides or , 2) the individual measures and provides them to the appraiser)

They are, fundamentally, no different (though you do not agree with that). Both are cases of data collection. Period. Whether it is the subject or a comp is not germane. I fully understand that you do not like that, but it is what it is. If you want that changed, then I suggest you contact the ASB with your comments.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Which is different from the individual measures the property.

AO 31 is clear as mud, of course. Fannie parrots the parts they like but ignores the paragraph above it.

Can we parse the last sentence in that paragraph as well? Then we will step back and look at the sentence above that.
​

Examples of significant appraisal assistance include, but are not limited to, identification (research and selection) of comparable properties and data, inspection of the subject property and comparable properties, estimating accrued depreciation, or forecasting income and expenses.​

AO 31, as I read it, clearly states inspection of the subject property is SIGNIFICANT ASSISTANCE. But wait! The previous sentence says,
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Therefore, only those acting as an appraiser sign the certification, or are identified as providing significant appraisal assistance in the certification.​

OK, to me the key to this isn't that AO31 is saying anyone NOT an appraiser can provide information without being identified as an appraiser, rather is saying any appraiser must be identified in the certification. Those not certified nor "acting as an appraiser" still must be identified in the report if they inspect the property, but are not required to sign off on the certification.

Note AO 31 also makes it clear that "USPAP does not define an "appraiser" in terms of state licensing or certification requirements." Village idiot, Realtor, or another appraiser, the INSPECTION is significant - truly critical - to most residential reports therefore, whomever does the inspection must be named. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. And if an appraiser does the inspection only, they are necessarily named in the certification.

AO 31 is out of date clearly. But my interpretation is that inspection is "significant appraisal assistance" and the person doing it should be identified, and if an appraiser by trade or name, must be named in the certification, just like you would name a co-appraiser, or a trainee, period. ​

 

[Michigan CG]

Where does it say in USPAP that I have to measure my subject property?

 

[J Grant]

AO 31 is clear as mud, of course. Fannie parrots the parts they like but ignores the paragraph above it.

Can we parse the last sentence in that paragraph as well? Then we will step back and look at the sentence above that.
​

Examples of significant appraisal assistance include, but are not limited to, identification (research and selection) of comparable properties and data, inspection of the subject property and comparable properties, estimating accrued depreciation, or forecasting income and expenses.​

AO 31, as I read it, clearly states inspection of the subject property is SIGNIFICANT ASSISTANCE. But wait! The previous sentence says,
​

Therefore, only those acting as an appraiser sign the certification, or are identified as providing significant appraisal assistance in the certification.​

OK, to me the key to this isn't that AO31 is saying anyone NOT an appraiser can provide information without being identified as an appraiser, rather is saying any appraiser must be identified in the certification. Those not certified nor "acting as an appraiser" still must be identified in the report if they inspect the property, but are not required to sign off on the certification.

Note AO 31 also makes it clear that "USPAP does not define an "appraiser" in terms of state licensing or certification requirements." Village idiot, Realtor, or another appraiser, the INSPECTION is significant - truly critical - to most residential reports therefore, whomever does the inspection must be named. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. And if an appraiser does the inspection only, they are necessarily named in the certification.

AO 31 is out of date clearly. But my interpretation is that inspection is "significant appraisal assistance" and the person doing it should be identified, and if an appraiser by trade or name, must be named in the certification, just like you would name a co-appraiser, or a trainee, period. ​

Great find T!

seems despite USPAP double talk an .an inspection of subject for appraisal is part of appraisal practice/acting as an appraiser- though one ( FAQ is still not USPAP ) said inspection is not appraisal practice if it offers no opinions. But the very act of performing an inspection means a person dong it must apply judgments and opinions since it is not just "gathering data"- a dwelling and site consists of varying sets of conditions and influences and quality levels.. An inspector has to decide in each step should this area be measured as dwelling sf or not, should I mark it as roof needs repair or not..., is that noise from the traffic an issue or not, or easier not to mention it - opinions of what "facts" to include /exclude how to describe what is there, or classify it etc.

Fannie is good at obfuscation and calling an inspection of a property "data gathering" is like calling eating a meal "ingesting nutrition".. it misses the essence of it and the worth in $ and reasons behind a consumer choosing a restaurant or dish. One can get the same nutrition in ingredients and calories from two vastly different culinary experience commanding two very different prices and customers in the market.

A remote inspection by proxy is s like paying someone to eat a meal for you when you are supposed to review a restaurant or dish. The person eating the meal sends back a list of ingredients and calories a photo of what they choose to picture. Okay.....

A subject inspection involves more than rote "collecting data" though fannie is trying to sell it as such in order to allow non appraisers to do it and not be named as contributing significant appraisal assistance.

 

[J Grant]

Where does it say in USPAP that I have to measure my subject property?

It does not say that, why are is that being introduced?

We get it, USAP does not require measuring or an inspection.

But the 1004P does use an inspection- and that includes measurements of the subject property, whic is relied on for appraisal result.

The question is if someone else does it, is the measuring the subject significant appraisal assistance or not-the USPAP FAQ only says it is not significant assistance if an individual writes measurements appraiser provides.l

 

[Michigan CG]

Where in USPAP does it say I have to inspect my subject property?

 

[J Grant]

Where in USPAP does it say I have to inspect my subject property?

It does not say in USPAP that you have to inspect your subject property, so why ask it? But USPAP does address disclosures and naming level of assistance if someone else inspects. your subject .

 

[djd09]

i think standard 1-2 would apply relevant physical market characteristics. how do know what they are without viewing the property.