Standardized Property Measuring Guidelines

[George Hatch]

Apologies for not wading through the entire thread but it seems to me that when it comes to measuring a subject, having-a-standard > not-having-a-standard. Even if you disagree with the ideology of the standard its primary utility is consistency. Appraisers doing it the same way, even if the brokers or the local jurisdictions have been doing it differently.

As far as the different ways you can go about rounding the subject's building area I don't see how it's going to have an effect on your value conclusions. Who cares if you end up with 2100sf vs 2125sf?

That is, unless the public records entry is significantly wrong for your comps on a regular basis, in which case how you round your subject isn't going to alter your results when compared to using the grossly inaccurate public records figures anyway. If public records says it's 1985sf the saying the subject measures at 2100 or 2125 sf both have the similar effect on your conclusions.

 

[George Hatch]

There is a carve out in the guidelines for this type of situation.

GLA on one line and "additional area" on another. If the market is treating the additional building area the same as GLA then you'd have no problems using the same adjustment factors for both.

 

[Dublin ohio]

ANSI this! Btw. Had a friend that was interested in this for AirBnb. Asked me how difficult it would be to get this appraised for conforming loan. I am still laughing. But it is under contract. Just texted him and asked if he had made an offer.

 

[CGinMN]

There is a carve out in the guidelines for this type of situation.

The carve-out is for when a home can't be measured to ANSI (berm home), not for when it can but the result makes the comparison more confusing.

 

[residentialguy]

Apologies for not wading through the entire thread but it seems to me that when it comes to measuring a subject, having-a-standard > not-having-a-standard. Even if you disagree with the ideology of the standard its primary utility is consistency. Appraisers doing it the same way, even if the brokers or the local jurisdictions have been doing it differently.

As far as the different ways you can go about rounding the subject's building area I don't see how it's going to have an effect on your value conclusions. Who cares if you end up with 2100sf vs 2125sf?

That is, unless the public records entry is significantly wrong for your comps on a regular basis, in which case how you round your subject isn't going to alter your results when compared to using the grossly inaccurate public records figures anyway. If public records says it's 1985sf the saying the subject measures at 2100 or 2125 sf both have the similar effect on your conclusions.

You and I both know the motives. This is coming down right at the extreme value arc.. they are looking for fall guys. The Govt certainly couldn't be at fault for the next crash. The buyers were vetted... well they had a pulse.
The other motive is data mining. Again to the appraisers' demise.
The market doesn't treat GLA with such precision. Most appraisers I know measure. I always rounded to 1/2'. Even rounding to nearest ft is reasonable. 1/10th of a ft displays a level of accuracy that appraisers don't have; like having a final value of $837,326.

 

[jay trotta]

Found this little gem for ya'll to pomder;
Martin Cahn
January 9, 2022 at 11:10 am
Hello, I’ve been appraising for 22 years. I have worked directly at Fannie, Freddie and HUD. I have help create policies, and the HUD 4000.1. One thing I have learned in all this time is these originations have got to stop trying to shift the blame to appraisers. Some Genuis at Fannie thinks by invoking Square Footage-Method for Calculating: ANSI® Z765-2021, that every appraiser is going to NOW measure the same house at the same GLA. (WRONG) not going to happen!! Instead of trying to change the appraisers, why don’t you impose stricter mandates on builders. YES, they have the blueprints, make it mandatory that this information is listed in County records with a copy of the sketch. Then the appraiser uses this. (Duh) If not; here is what’s going to happen. WWIII, Yup Between Sales agents, appraisers, and lenders alike. Sales agents ARE NOT going to use this new standard when listing a home, neither are builders, and therefore they are going to miss price the home by comparing them to larger homes, especially Cape Cods. Then, when an appraiser comes in and does use the new standard and pulls comps that are much smaller than everyone else was thinking, and the value is much lower (explosion)*** So for all you brainy acts Remember A modo we had in the Army (KISS) Keep it Simple Stupid. If an area of a home that is above grade is livable and heated it’s GLA. Even if the ceiling height is less than 5 feet. It’s cost money to insulate, run plumbing, electrical, drywall etc. It still cost money to put a roof over this area, a child’s bed or dresser will still go against that wall. There may still be hardwood flooring wall to wall or expensive carpet etc. Whoever came up with this has no idea of what they are starting. I review appraisals now for that past 8 years, and I have while at Fanni & HUD. The different things I’ve seen will shock you, NOW you want to ask some 75,000 appraisers across the nation to add heated are with ceiling heights of less than 5 feet to make it an extra line item on the sales grid. And who’s to say how much on this adjustment??? Another saying we had in the Army; This is going to be a Charlie Foxtrot!!!

 

[djd09]

Allows transparent and repeatable results for the user of the
appraisal report

if they wanted repeatable results, then why no access to CU?

 

[residentialguy]

if they wanted repeatable results, then why no access to CU?

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

I am not new to this rodeo. FNMA has hired a few geeks that are just trying to out-smart appraisers, and they think they can add more regulations. They are trying to take away appraiser judgments through regulations. The problem is that we NEED appraiser judgments. We know if the market supports ANSI, or if the comps in our area require rounding to the 1/2 foot. That is how my market is. Now we are required to use ANSI for our subject, when we know that the comps are not up to ANSI standards.

You may say that it doesn't matter, but that just proves that ANSI is not the solution to a made up problem that does not exist.

ANSI requires us to double-dip on stairways, which provides a slightly misleading report. The more accurate way to measure is to only double dip if there is a closet under part of the stairway. ANSI makes it easier for us to measure stairs, but it is not accurate. Spiral stairways are not required to be included in GLA.

The only way this ANSI crap is going to work, is if all MLS and tax data is revised using ANSI. Right now, NONE of our comps are using ANSI standards, so our reports are going to either make adjustments that are not supported, or add a comment that we have a limited idea of the size of the comp, but assume it is similar to what tax or MLS tells us, BECAUSE we do not know the ANSI size of the comps.

I don't have livable attics in my area, but those of you that do are going to have trouble. Is the comp including an attic that has a 6'10' ceiling over 50% of the attic? Good luck figuring that out. Guess we need to do an interior inspection and measasurements of all of our comps.

So, when you appraise a home per builder blueprints which are measured to 1/8 of an inch, do you go out and measure all the comparable sales to the 1/8 of an inch? Of course not, that is why these arguments hold no water. New construction is measured to a different standard and we just adjust to the comparable sales accordingly. This is no different. It is no less credible to measure to ANSI standards than it is to appraise per builder blueprints. Have ya'll been whining about the differences on these assignments Nope, Nada, No way!

This will hack ya'll off, my bank lenders expect me to verify the GLA of the builder's blueprints using ANSI and report any differences. The differences are miniscule.

 

[residentialguy]