Water Heater Drip Pans

[myearwoo]

I appreciate all the comments. Just learning my way and figured this was a greatly place to get checked. I just got an email from HUD and they copy and pasted the water heater section of the book for me. So that answers my question.

 

[shrubberyvaluation]

Hi All,

Looking for some expertise as I am getting a lot of backlash from a lender and AMC on an FHA order.

I have required a drip pan for a water heater within the living space of a property. The city adopted the International Plumbing Code 2015 with ORD18513 05/16. Plumbing Code 504.7 requires drips pans for water heaters located within the living space. The water heater was replaced 12/22. I have talked to 2 different inspectors within the city that have clearly stated that there is no grandfathering for drips pans due to potential hazards. I am waiting for an email so I can upload to the report.

The lender and AMC have fought hard. They state there is no such requirement even though I provided all documentation. Other appraisers do not require this repair and do not ever mention it. Also it should be grandfathered even if it is.

I have stayed strong on the issue as I do not believe ignorance in a code alleviates risk. Sure some appraisers are not familiar but I just so happen to be inspecting one at a plumbers house one day years ago that shared all the information with me.

I am still new (2 years with my certification) so I do get very nervous about these sorts of things as I am trying to do the right thing. I understand I am not an enforcer of code but when I stumble on something I know to be an issues and is required by local/state code I require compliance.

Lender/AMC has also stated that its the cities responsibility to enforce compliance and not my job. I have since messaged HUD asking for guidance on the issues as well so I was taught that properties should meet property codes.

The inspectors stated a hazard as does the IPC so I believe this to be an issue.

The AMC reviewer (also an appraiser) called and stated he never heard of this requirement and its not my responsibility to enforce and all the other stuff above. My last response was that I am 100% on this particular code and that I have an ethical obligation to leave the requirement as I know that it is a deficiency. I cannot remove this item especially after it has been identified, if I remove it I could face legal/criminal penalties with HUD. If I just state its not in compliance and cost to cure it then FHA/HUD may take issue that I did not enforce local/state code and remove me and if there is damage I could become responsible. Or I leave it,


So yeah...

Even if I think I know something I ask FHA and get it in writing for CYA. I believe underwriting can waive it if they disagree.

 

[myearwoo]

Even if I think I know something I ask FHA and get it in writing for CYA. I believe underwriting can waive it if they d

 

[myearwoo]

"HUD requires that each property insured with an FHA mortgage meet one of the nationally recognized building codes or a State or local building code based on a nationally recognized building code. In areas where such State or local codes are used, HUD determines if the State or local code is comparable to the model building code."

IPC is nationally recognized and the city/local government adopted its use. They have not responded directly on the matter yet but I kind of what off this. Also how would I avoid risk if there is water heater failure and damage occurs. The city adopted the code for that very reason as did the international plumbing community.

 

[glenn walker]

Nope not required by HUD -Move on and be done

 

[myearwoo]

Nope not required by HUD -Move on and be done

Meeting local/state building codes isn’t a requirement for HUD?

 

[glenn walker]

Meeting local/state building codes isn’t a requirement for HUD?

Nope but lenders require Hot water Heater to be double strapped in California and a Pressure relief valve due to earthquakes but its not a HUD Guideline just a lender over-lay. Almost no older homes have drip pans under hot water tanks. If it was millions of homes in CALI would have to be retrofitted. BUT on a new installation most contractors install one as it may be code in some cities. I agree with Lender its not a H & S Issue as long as teh HW Tank is double strapped and has Pressure release valve all it can do is drip water .

 

[Mike Ault]

Meeting local/state building codes isn’t a requirement for HUD?

Retrofitting existing construction to meet current code is not an FHA requirement. They dropped all previous references to water heaters meeting local code with the new handbook. This is the only FHA water heater requirement for existing construction in the Appraiser Inspection Protocol. Excerpted from 4000.1 – Page 589.

The Appraiser must examine the water heater to ensure that it has a temperature and pressure-relief valve with piping to safely divert escaping steam or hot water.

 

[myearwoo]

Nope but lenders require Hot water Heater to be double strapped in California and a Pressure relief valve due to earthquakes but its not a HUD Guideline just a lender over-lay. Almost no older homes have drip pans under hot water tanks. If it was millions of homes in CALI would have to be retrofitted. BUT on a new installation most contractors install one as it may be code in some cities. I agree with Lender its not a H & S Issue as long as teh HW Tank is double strapped and has Pressure release valve all it can do is drip water .

"HUD requires that each property insured with an FHA mortgage meet one of the nationally recognized building codes or a State or local building code based on a nationally recognized building code. In areas where such State or local codes are used, HUD determines if the State or local code is comparable to the model building code." This is from HUD

 

[Mike Ault]

"HUD requires that each property insured with an FHA mortgage meet one of the nationally recognized building codes or a State or local building code based on a nationally recognized building code. In areas where such State or local codes are used, HUD determines if the State or local code is comparable to the model building code." This is from HUD

Appraisers are not code inspectors. If you're going to attest to the fact that the subject meets a certain code, you are setting yourself up for future lawsuits. Unless you have extensive expertise in general contracting, you don't have the slightest idea if the foundation, framing, plumbing, or mechanical systems were accomplished in accordance with the applicable code. Stay in your "appraiser lane" by following appraiser inspection protocol as outlined in the handbook, and you won't get into trouble.