More AMC and PDC Bull

[George Hatch]

Doesn't matter who it is. The case will be argued and defended based on the content. Not the identities of the various parties.

 

[J Grant]

Per AI Copilot

The plaintiffs are a small number of individual appraisers — but they file the case on behalf of a much larger group.
-------------------------------------------

• 1 appraiser
• or 2–5 appraisers

These are the named plaintiffs.

Their names appear on the lawsuit.They are the ones who sign the complaint.They are the ones who work directly with the lawyers.

I wonder if Jgrant is one of the plaintiffs​

No, I am not.

I was under the impression that these were lawsuits filed on the behalf of the borrowers/consumers. I believe it would be worthwile to contact at least one of the firms to see if a future lawsuit might be possible for appraisers.

 

[Carnivore]

No, I am not.

I was under the impression that these were lawsuits filed on the behalf of the borrowers/consumers. I believe it would be worthwile to contact at least one of the firms to see if a future lawsuit might be possible for appraisers.

What I posted above said appraisers . not borrowers/consumers thats all I know

 

[sputnam]

See post 247 for the lawsuits working their way through the courts - the outcome might influence how the AMC's can conduct their business.

I don't need condescending lectures about the power I have to decline assignments. After working for a few AMCs post-HVCC, I burned through a lot of savings refusing low AMC junk fee offers until I could get enough non-AMC work- while you accept QC review work for an AMC.

Exercising my "power" came at a steep cost - as it does for any res license appraiser. Some drop out of the business or refuse AMC work because they won't accept low fees. Why don't you hold AMCs and the lenders who use them accountable for participating in a system that causes so much economic loss to appraisers, whether it is the cost to appraisers in resisting the AMC work and low AMC fees or having to cave to the low fees to get work?

Again.... the answer isn't in additional government regulation. The answer is in appraiser being willing to do what you did... and what I did and still do. Don't accept assignments with low fees. Again... It is none of my business how much the AMC makes nor how much the Lender makes on a transaction. My business is how much is my time and expertise worth. Do you really think that there should be a standard appraisal fee? I reckon my work, and maybe yours, is better than the work of a newly certified appraiser. I have more tools in my tool bag.

And yes, I do QC review work for an AMC. They meet my pay demands. That isn't the only thing I do or have done. Including, but not limited to, appraising many types of properties, all sorts of reviews (my favorites are forensic reviews), teaching QE, supervising and mentoring new appraisers, and pretty much everything else that many appraisers do. The big difference is that I paid my dues through long hours, difficult assignments, difficult Clients and property owners, etc, etc.... and now, I can choose what I do and don't do and how much I'll need to be paid for it.

IMO, it is you who has been condescending. You know.. or did know.. little about my appraisal career... yet you dismiss me. You don't simply disagree and state your case. It's fine if you disagree. That is your right. I am still going to say that I think you are wrong, when I do.

Maybe the big difference is I don't think that AMCs are inherently evil in the way you seem to. They are legal companies trying to earn a profit. I have the choice, as do all appraisers, of which ones to do business with... if any.

 

[J Grant]

Again.... the answer isn't in additional government regulation. The answer is in appraiser being willing to do what you did... and what I did and still do. Don't accept assignments with low fees. Again... It is none of my business how much the AMC makes nor how much the Lender makes on a transaction. My business is how much is my time and expertise worth. Do you really think that there should be a standard appraisal fee? I reckon my work, and maybe yours, is better than the work of a newly certified appraiser. I have more tools in my tool bag.

And yes, I do QC review work for an AMC. They meet my pay demands. That isn't the only thing I do or have done. Including, but not limited to, appraising many types of properties, all sorts of reviews (my favorites are forensic reviews), teaching QE, supervising and mentoring new appraisers, and pretty much everything else that many appraisers do. The big difference is that I paid my dues through long hours, difficult assignments, difficult Clients and property owners, etc, etc.... and now, I can choose what I do and don't do and how much I'll need to be paid for it.

IMO, it is you who has been condescending. You know.. or did know.. little about my appraisal career... yet you dismiss me. You don't simply disagree and state your case. It's fine if you disagree. That is your right. I am still going to say that I think you are wrong when I do.

We agree to disagree. State my case.. I have devoted untold hours of time that I take away from my own work to post the case here for AMC/lender fee reform. I do not dismiss you professionally; I am sure you are an excellent appraiser (I often put a like on your other posts on appraisal topics ). However, you are profiting from an AMC system that treats other appraisers very poorly.

There should be a standard for the AMC not to gouge whatever C and R fees exist to get compensated. The AMC should get compensated from the lender as a cost and not touch whatever C and R fees are in play in a region ( what the borrower pays a lender for the appraisal is C and R in an area ) The fact is that for non complex residential mortgage ordres, lenders do charge their borrowers a standard similar appraisal fee, and that is fine- the problem is the AMC gougning a huge chunk of it.

Appraisers should not have to go through a Mexican stand-off battle every time they bid or submit fees for an AMC-generated order. Appraisers have burned through savings or left the business or took on a second job because of their refusal to accept low fees. Why should appraisers have to go broke or flee the field just to get C and R pay? (Lenders are also at fault in this of course)

The lenders have deep pockets and could well afford to pay an AMC a cost for the AMC administration - why are you resistant to the idea of the lender paying a cost? (which perhaps they could pass on ot the borrower) That would get the AMC out of the fee business if they got paid a cost by their lender customer. That is how other businesses operate - they charge their customer a cost )

I think a good compromise would be either regulations or a voluntary solution of capping the AMC cut of the split of a bundled fee to 15% - 20% tops. Let a lender pay over that if they wish. leverage.

 

[George Hatch]

The lenders have deep pockets and could well afford to pay an AMC a cost for the AMC administration - why are you resistant to the idea of the lender paying a cost? (which perhaps they could pass on ot the borrower) That would get the AMC out of the fee business if they got paid a cost by their lender customer. That is how other businesses operate - they charge their customer a cost )

I think a good compromise would be either regulations or a voluntary solution of capping the AMC cut of the split of a bundled fee to 15% - 20% tops. Let a lender pay over that if they wish. leverage.

Can you possibly consider not attributing to people sentiments they never expressed? That is not a persuasive mode of discourse.

 

[J Grant]

Can you possibly consider not attributing to people sentiments they never expressed? That is not a persuasive mode of discourse.

You waste people's time here spinning word salad and making it personal, often discrediting appraisers to undermine them. Why?

 

[George Hatch]

I don't go personal until after explaining the same thing 4 or 5 times and/or in response to other people going personal. Your complaint about word salad and discrediting is about the explanation and elaboration, not about me misusing terms outside their intent - that's what YOU have based some of your various arguments.

For example, here's what's going to happen with your usage of the "appraisal fee" conflation. Now that I've brought it to your attention again in a more assertive manner that you cannot "forget" you will probably never attempt it again. You'll know in advance that I'm not just going to allow that untruth to pass as if it wasn't untrue.

As is my intent. My previous "kinder" efforts on that particular issue didn't work with you so I dialed those efforts up. And will continue to bring them up until you stop doing it. And not for the first time with you, either. It's worked for me before, that's why I do it.

 

[Carnivore]

Doesn't matter much longer res appraiser population is going to decline so the ones left standing may get more money

 

[George Hatch]

The 2030 market for appraisal services is coming whether any of us are ready for it or not. Whatever empathy and consideration of what appraisers are entitled to will not alter that outcome.