4 layers of shingles

[c w d]

An interesting factoid:

http://www.firesafedwellings.org/roof_info/roof_weight.html

Most building officials allow the installation of two to three layers of composition roofing (original plus one to two reroofs). The average weight of various composition roofing materials, according to a major California manufacturer, is approximately:

* 20 yr. Composition = 2.0 lbs./sq.ft. (200 lbs./square)*
* 25 yr. Composition = 2.4 lbs./sq.ft. (240 lbs./square)*
* 30 yr. Composition = 3.0 lbs./sq.ft. (300 lbs./square)*
* 40 yr. Composition = 3.4 lbs./sq.ft. (340 lbs./square)*

If it's 20yr shingles and that roof has 1800sqft thats 10,800lbs. If it's 30yr shingles thats 16,200lbs. That's a lot of weight. But that web page goes on to talk about roof load maxes for modern structures. Still, I'd be concerned.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

Isn't 3 layers more than 2?

Sorry Mr. Rex.... I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. My interpretation is that 3 layers is the maximum if repairs (or reroof) are required. It doesn't specifically address a maximum number of layers accepted if the roof does not require repairs. However, if the added layers represent a health and safety issue or code violation, then the cure will most assuredly be a reroof requiring removal of all layers prior to installation of the new roofing.

 

[Mr Rex]

It clearly says that a maximum of 3 layers are acceptable. I think you are trying to read between the lines rather than just reading what it says:

"FHA will accept a maximum of 3 layers of existing roofing"

 

[LordofTexas]

Appraisal is one of the few occupations where "The more, the merrier." rarely applies.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

It clearly says that a maximum of 3 layers are acceptable. I think you are trying to read between the lines rather than just reading what it says:

"FHA will accept a maximum of 3 layers of existing roofing"

It was not my intention to argue with you sir. I followed the link you provided and it does not specifically say, "FHA will accept a maximum of 3 layers of existing roofing." So, either you are providing your interpretation or you have another source which you have not shared.

I have copied and pasted what is written, below... If you have another source, I would like to see it.


2-12 ROOF COVERING must prevent entrance of moisture and provide
reasonable future utility, durability and economy of
maintenance. When reroofing is needed for a defective
roof, already consisting of three layers of shingles, all
old shingles must be removed prior to re-roofing.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Never mind...I found it myself.... [/FONT]
You are correct...but I do not stand corrected...
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chapter 1
Appraisal & Property Requirements
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Page 1-24[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1: Roofs: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The covering must prevent moisture from entering and provide reasonable future utility, durability and economy of maintenance. The appraiser must visually examine the roof to determine whether deficiencies present a health and safety hazard or do not allow for reasonable future utility. (4905.1 REV-1, 2-12.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Life Expectancy: The appraiser must exercise sound judgment when evaluating roof condition. The roof should have a remaining physical life of at least two years. If the roof has less than two years remaining life, then the appraiser must report this condition in the appraisal report.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Snow Covered Roofs: [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A. In areas where the snow is likely to lay for more than a few days:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1: The appraiser is required to make an extra thorough inspection of the attic and all visible roofing areas for signs of failing roofing materials. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2: If there is evidence of damage and/or leaks the appraiser is to condition for further inspection. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3: If there is no evidence of damage and/or water leaks. The borrower must be informed that the roof was snow covered at the time of the appraisal and that it is acceptable to the purchaser without any warranty or guarantees from HUD-FHA.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]B. In areas where the snow is not likely to lay for more than a few days a clear roof inspection is to be obtained prior to closing. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1: The appraiser is required to make a thorough inspection of the attic and all visible roofing areas for signs of failing roofing materials and report all roofing deficiencies in the appraisal report.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2: If the Underwriter determines, due to unusual weather conditions, it is not possible to obtain the clear inspection prior to closing, then the purchaser and seller are to sign an acknowledgment that indicates:[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i: The roof was covered with snow at the time of the appraisal inspection,[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ii: The snow is likely to continue to cover the roof for several more days and that the roof cannot be inspected prior to loan closing [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]iii: HUD-FHA makes no guarantees or warranties as to the roof’s condition. [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3: A clear roof inspection must then be obtained prior to submission for FHA Insurance or an escrow account equal to 1 ½ times the cost of a new roof is to be established in the event repairs or a new roof is found to be needed when the inspection takes place. (Certification is to be in the insuring package.)[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]C. Re-Roofing: FHA will accept a maximum of 3 layers of existing roofing. If more than 2 layers exist and repair is necessary, then all old roofing must be removed as part of the re-roofing. (4905.1 REV-1, 2-12)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]D. Inspections: A person determined to be qualified by the lender should make a certification as to the condition of the roof and the completion of work requirements. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]E. Flat Roof: FHA no longer mandates automatic inspection of flat and/or unobservable roofs. The appraiser must note in the appraisal that he/she could not adequately observe the entire roof area and state which area(s) were unobservable. As with any other type of roof the appraiser is to look for signs that would indicate a possible roof problem. Based on the information reported, either the appraiser or underwriter may call for a roofing inspection.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2: Attics:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is the homeowner/seller’s responsibility to provide clear access to these areas. FHA appraisers are required to observe the attic area. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]B. When there is no safe access to the attic the appraiser is to note the inaccessibility in the appraisal report. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]C. Inspection:The attic must be examined whether access is by pull-down stairway or scuttle. At a minimum, the appraiser must enter head and shoulders into the attic.[/FONT]

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

My apologies Mr. Rex. I see now that your citing was from the source I just found and not the (4905.1 Rev-1, 2-12) referenced. I do stand corrected...

 

[Brad Pack]

My apologies Mr. Rex. I see now that your citing was from the source I just found and not the (4905.1 Rev-1, 2-12) referenced. I do stand corrected...

Actually, HUD Handbook 4905.1 has long since been retired. It was incorporated into the 4150.2.

 

[CURT VAN HOOSER]

Actually, HUD Handbook 4905.1 has long since been retired. It was incorporated into the 4150.2.

Yet it is still referenced in many HUD documents. Also, this particular wording appears to have been "incorporated" verbatim.

 

[Mr Rex]

I have said numerous times that it is time for FHA/HUD to lose all the references to prior documents and make the protocol transparent. Easy enough to do on a govt budget. Maybe the MBs and LOs are right, the "new" FHA is conventional with a case number attached