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Advice For A Newbie

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USPAP Compliant said:
The number of appraisers has gone down every year since 2008. From a high of over 126,000 we are now at below 95,000. Why? Still to many appraisers for the amount of work available. Trainees are not included in these numbers bot appraisers with a license in multiple states are counted once for each state. The "real number" of licensed an certified is estimated to be 85,000. I taught pre-license classes until 2008 when it became nearly impossible to find a position.

You can get a CD of all appraisers in NC for $10.00 from the NCAB. It has the address, phone ## and email address for MOST of the appraisers.

This is a very hard business to break into for many reasons. Right now re-finances are down to 2000 levels. This has cut severely into the income of most residential appraisers. The appraiser has zero control of how many sales and refinances take place. I have spoken to many of the appraisers in my area and most of them are only doing 1-3 per week. That is a fact.

I am not trying to discourage you but be prepared to having a difficult time finding a supervisor and a very difficult time living on slave wages for 2+ years. It is what it is.
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USPAP Compliant said:
The number of appraisers has gone down every year since 2008. From a high of over 126,000 we are now at below 95,000. Why? Still to many appraisers for the amount of work available. Trainees are not included in these numbers bot appraisers with a license in multiple states are counted once for each state. The "real number" of licensed an certified is estimated to be 85,000. I taught pre-license classes until 2008 when it became nearly impossible to find a position.

You can get a CD of all appraisers in NC for $10.00 from the NCAB. It has the address, phone ## and email address for MOST of the appraisers.

This is a very hard business to break into for many reasons. Right now re-finances are down to 2000 levels. This has cut severely into the income of most residential appraisers. The appraiser has zero control of how many sales and refinances take place. I have spoken to many of the appraisers in my area and most of them are only doing 1-3 per week. That is a fact.

I am not trying to discourage you but be prepared to having a difficult time finding a supervisor and a very difficult time living on slave wages for 2+ years. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Great information here. Regarding the NCAB, I was aware that you could search by first and last name but had no idea that you could obtain a list for $10. The Appraisal Institute seems to have a fairly comprehensive list. Does the NCAB have a more extensive list?

The fact that appraising is so difficult to break into, as well as the declining number of appraisers, is very attractive to me.

What I see is a soon-to-be shortage of appraisers, with a high barrier to entry on the commercial side. Wages should continue to rise due to supply and demand as long as technology doesn't make the profession obsolete, right? I believe that the NC board has recently voted to adopt the AQB qualifications which from my understanding may go into effect as early as next year, if it passes. The education requirements for the certified general remain the same while the experience hours may be cut down considerably, by 1500 hours. In other words, as the pool of supervisors becomes smaller, it's still going to become increasingly difficult to get in due to the lack of supervisors even with a reduction in the number of required hours. I'm seeing a bright future on the commercial side. Is there a fallacy in my thinking?

Regarding finding a mentor and being paid slave wages - if I'm able to find a mentor, what would you consider to be slave wages in NC? I live frugally and have a wife and saving to keep the ship afloat for the 2 1/2 - 3 years required for me to become a certified general. I've heard everything from working for minimum wage to $20ish an hour. I've even heard some say that you should be willing to work for free or even pay your supervisor, which I can definitely understand where they are coming from. Honestly, what's an inexperienced trainee worth with a B.S. in business and about 10 years of experience running an internet marketing business? Anyone willing to share?

I've read plenty about residential appraising and the direction that it's headed. This has discouraged me from becoming a residential appraiser. However, I'm very interested in the commercial side. Tell me about the commercial side. Are you guys still making good money ($100k a year self-employed single person shop) and what direction is commercial appraising headed with automation and cash flow analysis based appraisals?
 
StayPuft said:
Great information here. Regarding the NCAB, I was aware that you could search by first and last name but had no idea that you could obtain a list for $10. The Appraisal Institute seems to have a fairly comprehensive list. Does the NCAB have a more extensive list?

The fact that appraising is so difficult to break into, as well as the declining number of appraisers, is very attractive to me.

What I see is a soon-to-be shortage of appraisers, with a high barrier to entry on the commercial side. Wages should continue to rise due to supply and demand as long as technology doesn't make the profession obsolete, right? I believe that the NC board has recently voted to adopt the AQB qualifications which from my understanding may go into effect as early as next year, if it passes. The education requirements for the certified general remain the same while the experience hours may be cut down considerably, by 1500 hours. In other words, as the pool of supervisors becomes smaller, it's still going to become increasingly difficult to get in due to the lack of supervisors even with a reduction in the number of required hours. I'm seeing a bright future on the commercial side. Is there a fallacy in my thinking?

Regarding finding a mentor and being paid slave wages - if I'm able to find a mentor, what would you consider to be slave wages in NC? I live frugally and have a wife and saving to keep the ship afloat for the 2 1/2 - 3 years required for me to become a certified general. I've heard everything from working for minimum wage to $20ish an hour. I've even heard some say that you should be willing to work for free or even pay your supervisor, which I can definitely understand where they are coming from. Honestly, what's an inexperienced trainee worth with a B.S. in business and about 10 years of experience running an internet marketing business? Anyone willing to share?

I've read plenty about residential appraising and the direction that it's headed. This has discouraged me from becoming a residential appraiser. However, I'm very interested in the commercial side. Tell me about the commercial side. Are you guys still making good money ($100k a year self-employed single person shop) and what direction is commercial appraising headed with automation and cash flow analysis based appraisals?
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I'll DM you when I get back in town on Monday. It goes back to location.
 
ucbruin said:
Interesting question and I've no answer....

But I do have a comment....
During the past couple of real estate crashes....
Which type of property gets most of the blame???
Residential or commercial???

It could be that being CR I don't notice articles that focus on commercial....
So, it seems to me that residential is considered the usual suspect....
I don't see why commercial appraising will be immune to technological advances....
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The last crash was due to residential and the lax lending standards. My Labrador could have bought a house in 2006. It was clear by the middle of 2008 (or earlier) that residential was in a downfall. The commercial market as I remember it was still good but with a crash like that and with the economy tanking commercial soon followed. The commercial market followed the residential market and in the "recovery" commercial also followed the residential market.

Commercial is not immune to technology although a lot of it isn't. The commercial property I am doing now could never be accurately "appraised" with technology.
 
Michigan CG said:
The last crash was due to residential and the lax lending standards. My Labrador could have bought a house in 2006. It was clear by the middle of 2008 (or earlier) that residential was in a downfall. The commercial market as I remember it was still good but with a crash like that and with the economy tanking commercial soon followed. The commercial market followed the residential market and in the "recovery" commercial also followed the residential market.

Commercial is not immune to technology although a lot of it isn't. The commercial property I am doing now could never be accurately "appraised" with technology.
Click to expand...

"The commercial property I am doing now could never be accurately "appraised" with technology."

Just needs to be "credible"....:)
 
Michigan CG said:
The last crash was due to residential and the lax lending standards. My Labrador could have bought a house in 2006. It was clear by the middle of 2008 (or earlier) that residential was in a downfall. The commercial market as I remember it was still good but with a crash like that and with the economy tanking commercial soon followed. The commercial market followed the residential market and in the "recovery" commercial also followed the residential market.

Commercial is not immune to technology although a lot of it isn't. The commercial property I am doing now could never be accurately "appraised" with technology.
Click to expand...

The market will always be cyclical in real estate which seems to be a feast or famine industry. So what you would say is the greatest threat to the future of commercial appraising?
 
StayPuft said:
............... The Appraisal Institute ................. The education requirements for the certified general remain the same while the experience hours may be cut down considerably, by 1500 hours. ...................Tell me about the commercial side. Are you guys still making good money ($100k a year self-employed single person shop) ..............
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If you are interested in commercial you need to take AI classes and there is no debate about that. Now, they can be intense. I have been in two classes (one was an income class [commercial] and the other was a residential designation class) where people literally cried during a test. You could take a class from McKissock for commercial to get an easier class that might be easier to keep up with but you would need to take the same class from the AI to get all of the meat and potatoes.

Anyone thinking they will be a competent commercial appraiser with only 1,500 hours is smoking something that is only legal in some states. There are SO MANY commercial types and the way to appraise them is different. For hotels you need to know the techniques (RESPAR), for marinas it is something else, for industrial you need to learn about docks and distances or any number of things. Apartments are pretty easy until they throw in tax credits. Commercial is a different bird altogether and it is my opinion one should work for someone else for about five years to be truly good at all property types ASSUMING one is exposed to different property types.

Some people come on here and say they want to specialize in certain property types and the most cited one is apartments. I could teach my dog to appraise most apartment buildings.

Money? There are multiple threads on here about money. Generally it is posted that the average residential appraiser makes about $60,000/year after expenses. For commercial it is generally accepted that the average is about $90,000. The commercial number is misleading in that the surveys survey people with a commercial license. The truth of the matter is most people with a commercial license do some or even all residential work.

In my county there are four people with commercial licenses that are active. All of us do residential work with two CGs doing absolutely no commercial work (100% residential). I do commercial work and I THINK the other guy does some although I don't know; I am pretty sure he is not taking litigation stuff as I have not seen anything I have been involved in in the last five years.

From what I have read and what I can tell the guys making the most money are associated with local, regional MAI shops or a couple of the RESPECTED national companies. There are national companies that get little respect. From what I can tell, a guy working for a regional or local shop with an MAI overseeing it can expect about $150,000 with a license and the same for one of the RESPECTED national companies.

If one goes to almost any metro area there are shops that have a lot of respect and some that don't. There are also small shops that have little respect. Some can be experts in certain property types although that is rare in the overall scheme of things.
 
StayPuft said:
The market will always be cyclical in real estate which seems to be a feast or famine industry. So what you would say is the greatest threat to the future of commercial appraising?
Click to expand...

I am not a good person to answer that question. Most of my commercial is private party and is only about 20% of what I do. Most of my commercial work is local and smaller properties. The one I have now is only 6,000 SF. While I have appraised shopping malls no lender is going to hire me for that.
 
USPAP Compliant said:
The number of appraisers has gone down every year since 2008. From a high of over 126,000 we are now at below 95,000.
Click to expand...

According to the AI the number of appraisers is about 82,000. Comparing the number of appraisers NOW vs. 2008 is not a valid argument as there were all sorts of idiots training people from 2003-2008. The real comparison would be to the year 2000 where lending volume is similar to today and the number of appraisers then is similar to what it is now. The only difference is there were most likely less idiots in 2000 than there are now, speaking mostly about residential.
 
Michigan CG said:
According to the AI the number of appraisers is about 82,000. Comparing the number of appraisers NOW vs. 2008 is not a valid argument as there were all sorts of idiots training people from 2003-2008. The real comparison would be to the year 2000 where lending volume is similar to today and the number of appraisers then is similar to what it is now. The only difference is there were most likely less idiots in 2000 than there are now, speaking mostly about residential.
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I said 85,000 in post 28.
 
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