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AI Connect
- Thread starter Stephen J. Vertin MAI
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Meandering
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Professional Status
- Real Estate Agent or Broker
- State
- Pennsylvania
I like this idea,
Not one buyer, many many buyers. Every bank, from Wells Fargo to the little county bank, every lawyer, every investor, every transportation authority would log onto it to place their appraisal RFPs. The clearing house is just a middle man just like the Chicago Board of Trade doesn't take positions, only facilitates it.
A clearinghouse compute to assign based on uploaded resumes would do away with blacklists and "lowest fee wins all the work."
With technology being what it is, there is no excuse why 80,000 appraiser profiles are not uploaded and selected via a computer program instead of what we have now.
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Not one buyer, many many buyers. Every bank, from Wells Fargo to the little county bank, every lawyer, every investor, every transportation authority would log onto it to place their appraisal RFPs. The clearing house is just a middle man just like the Chicago Board of Trade doesn't take positions, only facilitates it.
A clearinghouse compute to assign based on uploaded resumes would do away with blacklists and "lowest fee wins all the work."
With technology being what it is, there is no excuse why 80,000 appraiser profiles are not uploaded and selected via a computer program instead of what we have now.
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Eli
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Tennessee
Even if the top economist in Washington said it would work, remember who might be opposed.
Meandering
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Professional Status
- Real Estate Agent or Broker
- State
- Pennsylvania
Everybody who is not us?
Did I win?
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Did I win?
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Stephen J. Vertin MAI
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Illinois
This amazing. Let me summarizes this. Every group has a complaint with current regulations. The appraisal organizations, state regulatory bodies and appraisers are seeing real problems. Some of the last three groups have, but not all, similar arguments. The one thing they do have in common is the vast majority are unsatisfied with (and they do not believe) AF and the boards it creates are helping matters. Further, they do not believe they are installing public trust. In fact most believe quite the opposite.
No matter how appraisal work is distributed, will not change things (the fundamentals are the problem). You have large CPA firms providing corporate America with one number values for their real estate and charging 5 time more in fees (than appraisers). These numbers are of course rolled into financial reports that are eternal corporate documents that no one sees. You can not turn them in. They are taking giant chunks out of our markets. It is illegal for them to do this in almost every state in the US but has never been tested because the problem is out of sight and out of mind. On the other end you have BPO's, AVM's and others taking work under $250,000 (residential) and $1,000,000 (commercial). They have no problems providing it cheaper or faster. Their hands are not tied by USPAP like ours. You can not compete. It is not a level playing field. In IMHO they should have kept USPAP restricted to FRT. After that free game.
Some states dump their money taken in by licensing back into enforcement some do not. The ones doing the latter are loosing more and more ground due to fewer and fewer appraisers. TAF could give a zzz about the problems they have created at ground level. The only way that things will change is if appraisers start lobbying Congress making them aware of what has been created. TAF got pissed at AI for this. Which is bull because every American citizen has the right to lobby Congress especially it groups appointed by them are not listing and seeing facts. If we all got up and wrote to our Congressman/woman on the matter this would change and change quickly or they would throw TAF out on their ear. Report it, watch what is done about it, if nothing, than do not vote your congress person in again and tell them that.
Bottom line is TAF are very unresponsive to appraisers, Appraisal Organizations and Appraisal Enforcement. There were a number of people on these panels from each group. Tons of letters were written opposing changes to the 2015 changes, while there were minor concessions made they did not listen to what the majority of the industry was saying.
No matter how appraisal work is distributed, will not change things (the fundamentals are the problem). You have large CPA firms providing corporate America with one number values for their real estate and charging 5 time more in fees (than appraisers). These numbers are of course rolled into financial reports that are eternal corporate documents that no one sees. You can not turn them in. They are taking giant chunks out of our markets. It is illegal for them to do this in almost every state in the US but has never been tested because the problem is out of sight and out of mind. On the other end you have BPO's, AVM's and others taking work under $250,000 (residential) and $1,000,000 (commercial). They have no problems providing it cheaper or faster. Their hands are not tied by USPAP like ours. You can not compete. It is not a level playing field. In IMHO they should have kept USPAP restricted to FRT. After that free game.
Some states dump their money taken in by licensing back into enforcement some do not. The ones doing the latter are loosing more and more ground due to fewer and fewer appraisers. TAF could give a zzz about the problems they have created at ground level. The only way that things will change is if appraisers start lobbying Congress making them aware of what has been created. TAF got pissed at AI for this. Which is bull because every American citizen has the right to lobby Congress especially it groups appointed by them are not listing and seeing facts. If we all got up and wrote to our Congressman/woman on the matter this would change and change quickly or they would throw TAF out on their ear. Report it, watch what is done about it, if nothing, than do not vote your congress person in again and tell them that.
Bottom line is TAF are very unresponsive to appraisers, Appraisal Organizations and Appraisal Enforcement. There were a number of people on these panels from each group. Tons of letters were written opposing changes to the 2015 changes, while there were minor concessions made they did not listen to what the majority of the industry was saying.
factsandtruth
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2013
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Georgia
I was for the 2015 changes! The best thing that ever happened to the appraisal "profession"!!
Meandering
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Professional Status
- Real Estate Agent or Broker
- State
- Pennsylvania
Stephen.
We have a government that will not listen, and has written laws to keep us at bay as much as possible. You have to be careful what you say and how you advocate for things. Please see this article
Mowing Down the Grassroots: New Report Details How “Grassroots Lobbying” Laws Threaten Political Participation
Here is the link to the lobby laws as of 2010 from the institutes of justice, their PDF: Mowing Down the Grassroots.
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/washington/mowing_down_the-grassroots.pdf
Page 3 might get your interest.
.
We have a government that will not listen, and has written laws to keep us at bay as much as possible. You have to be careful what you say and how you advocate for things. Please see this article
Mowing Down the Grassroots: New Report Details How “Grassroots Lobbying” Laws Threaten Political Participation
Here is the link to the lobby laws as of 2010 from the institutes of justice, their PDF: Mowing Down the Grassroots.
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/washington/mowing_down_the-grassroots.pdf
Page 3 might get your interest.
.
Stephen J. Vertin MAI
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Illinois
Welcome to the forum Factsandtruth! For it or against it is not at issue. You will always have people for and against things. That is simply politics. The panels issue was the response. One thing I did believe incredible, (that I never knew), was TAF is headed by someone who has never appraised anything in their lives. I have nothing against anyone (they are most likely doing their best I would pray). However, I do find credibility in most of what was said. I am working longer and harder than ever to make the same amount I made 10 years ago. Fee are not going up. If anything they are going down. If you are in another environment God has blessed you but that is not most appraisers situation today.
Marion, these are not my thoughts. I am not starting nor do I have the time for grass roots movements
I am reporting what was said. While I may agree with much of what was said I also brought out things I did not agree with. So if they are going to get me they are barking up the wrong tree. There are many smart and better people who are light years ahead of me on this subject and you already see AI's position with TAF and TAF's position with AI.I am telling you AI has money, lobbyist and resources and backing from most members and are moving forward with what they believe best for the industry.
Terrel L. Shields
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Arkansas
That is a horrible idea....maybe if limited to the secondary market only. Otherwise a disaster for any specialty appraiser
Meandering
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
- Professional Status
- Real Estate Agent or Broker
- State
- Pennsylvania
A simple disclaimer can be worth a bunch dollars.
Just a heads up is all.
Personally I think we need more effective lobbying. Not that our professional organizations aren't, just that we need more of it, maybe with newer voices, maybe from different organizations that can multiple our numbers with their own memberships. The possibilities are there, but my experience has been that egos get in the way.
There are lots of things wrong, fees are just a small part. Our very own Dictionary is only for educational use. So in practice, we don't have a Dictionary that we can hold up as gospel of anything. Even the definitions in USPAP are very broad, to accommodate so many aspects of what can be appraised, for what purpose, they are almost useless, and somewhat contradictory to some value definitions in the Dictionary. It was a year or so ago, Danny Wiley, PE and I went round and round about the USPAP definition of exposure time being applicable to all value definitions that have market exposure as a component and not just limited to market value.
How can we promote public trust when the public has no idea we are not getting 100% of the appraisal fee?
How can the truth in lending act say that the loan officer can not have any input into who the appraiser will be, yet the loan officer is quoting the appraisal fee, and their knowledge of C&R is??????? And their knowledge of AMC 3rd party bonafide fee is ?????? That might sound like nothing if the loan officer is an employee of the lender, but surprise! There are still mortgage brokers left in the world who are not employees of the lender - doesn't that color the picture slightly differently?
Assignment conditions, biggest joke to independence there is, falls right below the financing equivalent to cash lie. Yeah, yeah, we could say no, but really, If I asked you to buy drugs for me and you said no, I would still get arrested, why is this not a similar scenario? How come they don't get sanctioned for that? They are supposed to be "sophisticated" users of appraisal reports and are supposed to understand they can't limit our research or comp selection to only what they want to have, (90 days, 1/2 mile, same neighborhood) Whatever their mandate du-jour is. Speaking of which, that IVPI thing was in Frank Dodd, it was supposed to happen that we could report violations to someone who was supposed to act on them. What we got is a shared website with borrowers who can complain about us, and they'll pass the information on to the state, if the state gets around to writing laws that allow them to do something about it. Otherwise, don't hold your breath.
Problems with training started long ago with multiple gopher offices. Now that's been cut down, but here is the issue. If you only appraise C stores/Gas stations, or 3 bedroom ranch homes and condos - you have no business taking in a trainee. How many of them post here, OMG my subject has a basement, I don't know how to deal with it. Holy Cannoli I won the bid to appraise the local hotel that rents rooms by the week, where do I start? I'm appraising the 120+ year old house in a subdivision of 1960s ranchers, so of course its an over improvement. We've seen all these kinds of posts to this forum over the past few years. How many times are they happening and not posted here? Like cockroaches? For every one you read, there are 10,000 not being asked?
This is the problem with training. If your business is not diverse in property types, zoning types, ownership interests and other issues, you should not be taking on trainees. Look at it from the perspective of those young people we want to come into the business. After 120 college class room hours where they made you memorize oodles of things, you can spend the rest of your days drawing 3 bedroom ranch homes, with and without garages and maybe find one with a basement. Whoopie!
As long as I have been on this forum the "problems with the industry" have come up. Yes, there are many issues where we have shot ourselves in the foot. But for the most part, we are powerless to fix the issues. There is no one "at the top" that wants the issues fixed. They know those issues exist, they wrote laws to fix 'em. They just refuse to enforce the laws.
But heck, why should these issues be any different than any other lending issue. We get the blame because history has taught them we will do nothing about it. It does them no good to tell us there are no trainees. We can look to our right and left at empty office chairs and know that. It does them no good to tell us, we are not "saving the banks" from financial ruin with our appraisal reports, when we see REO reports going out the door with values of $zzz,zzz and the banks list them for 30% or more, less than appraised value. It does them no good to tell us that values go up too fast and come down too fast when they (Greenspan, the Fed, the lenders) Advocated for adjustable rate mortgages with little to no money down, tied to the libor index and then they manipulated the libor index. Why is that our fault? What can we do about it in the future? Other than tell everyone we know not to borrow money, there really is nothing we can "do" about it.
But just telling us, is a nifty way to transfer guilt. Maybe we'll all hang our heads in shame and just go away so they can move forward with a better plan and they won't have to bear any negative publicity for killing yet another industry.
.
.
Just a heads up is all.
Personally I think we need more effective lobbying. Not that our professional organizations aren't, just that we need more of it, maybe with newer voices, maybe from different organizations that can multiple our numbers with their own memberships. The possibilities are there, but my experience has been that egos get in the way.
There are lots of things wrong, fees are just a small part. Our very own Dictionary is only for educational use. So in practice, we don't have a Dictionary that we can hold up as gospel of anything. Even the definitions in USPAP are very broad, to accommodate so many aspects of what can be appraised, for what purpose, they are almost useless, and somewhat contradictory to some value definitions in the Dictionary. It was a year or so ago, Danny Wiley, PE and I went round and round about the USPAP definition of exposure time being applicable to all value definitions that have market exposure as a component and not just limited to market value.
How can we promote public trust when the public has no idea we are not getting 100% of the appraisal fee?
How can the truth in lending act say that the loan officer can not have any input into who the appraiser will be, yet the loan officer is quoting the appraisal fee, and their knowledge of C&R is??????? And their knowledge of AMC 3rd party bonafide fee is ?????? That might sound like nothing if the loan officer is an employee of the lender, but surprise! There are still mortgage brokers left in the world who are not employees of the lender - doesn't that color the picture slightly differently?
Assignment conditions, biggest joke to independence there is, falls right below the financing equivalent to cash lie. Yeah, yeah, we could say no, but really, If I asked you to buy drugs for me and you said no, I would still get arrested, why is this not a similar scenario? How come they don't get sanctioned for that? They are supposed to be "sophisticated" users of appraisal reports and are supposed to understand they can't limit our research or comp selection to only what they want to have, (90 days, 1/2 mile, same neighborhood) Whatever their mandate du-jour is. Speaking of which, that IVPI thing was in Frank Dodd, it was supposed to happen that we could report violations to someone who was supposed to act on them. What we got is a shared website with borrowers who can complain about us, and they'll pass the information on to the state, if the state gets around to writing laws that allow them to do something about it. Otherwise, don't hold your breath.
Problems with training started long ago with multiple gopher offices. Now that's been cut down, but here is the issue. If you only appraise C stores/Gas stations, or 3 bedroom ranch homes and condos - you have no business taking in a trainee. How many of them post here, OMG my subject has a basement, I don't know how to deal with it. Holy Cannoli I won the bid to appraise the local hotel that rents rooms by the week, where do I start? I'm appraising the 120+ year old house in a subdivision of 1960s ranchers, so of course its an over improvement. We've seen all these kinds of posts to this forum over the past few years. How many times are they happening and not posted here? Like cockroaches? For every one you read, there are 10,000 not being asked?
This is the problem with training. If your business is not diverse in property types, zoning types, ownership interests and other issues, you should not be taking on trainees. Look at it from the perspective of those young people we want to come into the business. After 120 college class room hours where they made you memorize oodles of things, you can spend the rest of your days drawing 3 bedroom ranch homes, with and without garages and maybe find one with a basement. Whoopie!
As long as I have been on this forum the "problems with the industry" have come up. Yes, there are many issues where we have shot ourselves in the foot. But for the most part, we are powerless to fix the issues. There is no one "at the top" that wants the issues fixed. They know those issues exist, they wrote laws to fix 'em. They just refuse to enforce the laws.
But heck, why should these issues be any different than any other lending issue. We get the blame because history has taught them we will do nothing about it. It does them no good to tell us there are no trainees. We can look to our right and left at empty office chairs and know that. It does them no good to tell us, we are not "saving the banks" from financial ruin with our appraisal reports, when we see REO reports going out the door with values of $zzz,zzz and the banks list them for 30% or more, less than appraised value. It does them no good to tell us that values go up too fast and come down too fast when they (Greenspan, the Fed, the lenders) Advocated for adjustable rate mortgages with little to no money down, tied to the libor index and then they manipulated the libor index. Why is that our fault? What can we do about it in the future? Other than tell everyone we know not to borrow money, there really is nothing we can "do" about it.
But just telling us, is a nifty way to transfer guilt. Maybe we'll all hang our heads in shame and just go away so they can move forward with a better plan and they won't have to bear any negative publicity for killing yet another industry.
.
.
- Status