AI Connect

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

That may be true, but as someone who has gone through the more stringent training requirements to obtain a license, I have no desire to see barriers to entry in becoming an appraiser loosened. I know you were talking about it in a little different context, but alas.

Just a simple question and answer honestly and fairly (I get the self interest angle I really do and see nothing wrong with it but leave it out for a second). Do you think it is right for someone with a Masters Degree in Finance and Valuation theory to sit through appraisal 101 or capitalization theory 101. Don't you think there should be a testing out mechanism? Honestly and be fair as though you were a judge in the case. Most other industries have this.

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

Marion: You are preaching to the choir. The task to change the process would be herculean. However, I have to says with all honesty what he was saying was extremely convincing.

 

[Gobears81]

Just a simple question and answer honestly and fairly (I get the self interest angle I really do and see nothing wrong with it but leave it out for a second). Do you think it is right for someone with a Masters Degree in Finance and Valuation theory to sit through appraisal 101 or capitalization theory 101. Don't you think there should be a testing out mechanism? Honestly and be fair as though you were a judge in the case. Most other industries have this.

Well, I have an MBA and my bachelor's degree was in finance with a specialization in real estate. The Gordon Growth theory was taught throughout my college education and when I first started appraising, there was limited use of that in real estate appraisal. There was undoubtedly some review, especially in the real estate principles and general income approach classes, but it was still important to make sure that the way that I am learning is the way that real estate practitioners are doing it, not just college professors. Those three classes took up 12-days of my life. A pain? Sure, but is it something to alter career choices on? Hardly. I certainly could not have passed the CG exam with my knowledge from my college classes, and I'm not sure that I could have passed the trainee exam either since there was some material taught in the procedures class that was not taught in my college real estate classes.

 

[Meandering]

That's why HE is the guy they sent to speak.

Pitty, no one questioned him, that if appraisals, and knowing if the house can be rebuilt should it experience an early demise, and if the finished attic was permitted, and if peeling paint is so important to a loan..........

How is it they accept AVMs and BPOs?

Obviously we're being regulated to the point of redundant insignificance, but it's still our fault.

.

 

[Eli]

Marion: You are preaching to the choir. The task to change the process would be herculean. However, I have to says with all honesty what he was saying was extremely convincing.

The elimination of the cost approach would be impossible if land to building ratios are employed. Many smart people have said and have been publishing that all three approaches when applicable would stop a bunch of stuff.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

after the crash of '39

Hmm...I woulda swore that was 29... ... I remember it well ...

there was limited use of that in real estate appraisal

I would think it not easy to apply it to real estate but "intrinsic" value is a real concept. How we get there...well, there has to be a way.

Why your fear of loosening these standards? Do you think that since you "earned it" (by virtual of a government mandate) that you should be able to say "I am better than..."? Or, more likely, "I don't want competition".

When USPAP was adopted and licensing began, there were a lot of appraisers rejoicing because they thought it made them look more "professional" and it make appraisal an exclusive club that you needed the secret handshake to enter. That is an artificial bar meant to control pricing. And what happened? Are we more professional? Do our users THINK we are more professional? And about that big fat paycheck we could all get simply by restricting the players who get to sit in on the game.... Hmm.

 

[Eli]

Hmm...I woulda swore that was 29... ... I remember it well ...


I would think it not easy to apply it to real estate but "intrinsic" value is a real concept. How we get there...well, there has to be a way.

Why your fear of loosening these standards? Do you think that since you "earned it" (by virtual of a government mandate) that you should be able to say "I am better than..."? Or, more likely, "I don't want competition".

When USPAP was adopted and licensing began, there were a lot of appraisers rejoicing because they thought it made them look more "professional" and it make appraisal an exclusive club that you needed the secret handshake to enter. That is an artificial bar meant to control pricing. And what happened? Are we more professional? Do our users THINK we are more professional? And about that big fat paycheck we could all get simply by restricting the players who get to sit in on the game.... Hmm.

My biggest cheer for the college requirement is knowing many a trainee are not being taken advantage of by a sorry *** supervisor, like they were. And even if they are able to, it is not likely to last near as long as it did before with some. Based on the number of new trainees coming in, it is practically gone. I wouldn't doubt most trainees coming in now are salary somewhere in a large corporate environment. No cheap abusive type situation most likely.

 

[Meandering]

I would think it not easy to apply it to real estate but "intrinsic" value is a real concept. How we get there...well, there has to be a way.

In housing?
Shelter is a primary need of human survival.
But value beyond survival only exists with an economy that extends to the many.

Thus, the Mc Mansion in Benton AK, has much less intrinsic value when picked up and moved to Ethiopia, as the population lacks the means to purchase. Land has intrinsic value, as it gives you a place to put your shelter, and raise your animals and crops for food and survival. Sorry, those crops and animals have been zoned out. Thus, your acre in Benton holds little to no intrinsic value, if you are broke. But might be very valuable in Ethiopia if it has a spring and you will accept a goat in trade for it.

The "intrinsic" value of many acres of prairie land went to ZERO during the dust bowl, when thousands walked away to California.

Government has become so pervasive, and invasive that there is no such thing as intrinsic value anymore.

.

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

Gobears: I have a similar back ground except my under grad degree was in finance with a real estate minor. I found the cap courses extremely boring and any issues dealing with statistics inadequate. Oh one thing I want to add is I had a real estate statistics seminar while there. The instructor hit me with a ton of bricks from jump. He said the two-years I spent choosing random samples from a total population and the tons of math following are useless in today's market. Why take random samples from populations when you have the entire population. Since I collect entire populations for my MLS it went off like a bomb and realized he was speaking the truth.

Anyway, I believe these courses are game changers. As the old adage goes "how many straws does to it take to break a camels back?". I am not saying in and by themselves.......... I am saying layer after layer after layer of regulations take tolls. It may not be one thing but when put together with a thousand others, you have problems.

 

[Gobears81]

Why your fear of loosening these standards? Do you think that since you "earned it" (by virtual of a government mandate) that you should be able to say "I am better than..."? Or, more likely, "I don't want competition".

When USPAP was adopted and licensing began, there were a lot of appraisers rejoicing because they thought it made them look more "professional" and it make appraisal an exclusive club that you needed the secret handshake to enter. That is an artificial bar meant to control pricing. And what happened? Are we more professional? Do our users THINK we are more professional? And about that big fat paycheck we could all get simply by restricting the players who get to sit in on the game.... Hmm.

We are putting out reports that have an effect on peoples lives. A few thousand dollars may not seem like much, but it may be just enough to either kill (or result in) a loan that could have implications in the future. In the case of say settlement or ad valorem purposes, our numbers might result in payout of a large sum or loss of a large sum to governmental entities. I have heard before that the person who knows a little is the most dangerous- the person that knows nothing accepts that they know nothing, but someone who knows a little could apply that knowledge incorrectly. Because there IS a shortage of appraisers is all the more reason to keep standards high-if there is plenty of work to go around and one appraiser cannot get work done in time, they might turn to whoever is available to do it. I don't see the standards for becoming a certified general appraiser being THAT unreasonable. A college degree? Sure, we often deal with appraisals of several million dollars of value. The required experience is what, 4000 hours? That is two years. So I could appraise under someone for two years, then get my CG license and I won't need a co-signer for anything. Education is 200 hours I think. That is five weeks, but if we get that CG license that allows us to appraise anything, then we should have great understanding of theory and procedures used to value said properties. I understand the competency provision in USPAP, but if we do appraisals as a trainee of say nursing homes and then get our CG license, we could probably justify that competency provision. If we dilute the standards, then maybe we only need one year of appraisal experience, a high school diploma, and a little education to do that appraisal without a co-signer. That doesn't inspire confidence in me and I've seen enough bad appraisals to know what their implications could be.