Amish Appraisal

[Evincere]

Cell phone! Its the strangest thing, I wanted to ask him so many questions about their lifestyle but as I said I don't think he even wanted me there. As I was driving there every barn had high-end solar arrays, why is it okay to use DC and not AC?

They consider Solar as harnessing Gods Grid.

Other means of generating power

http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-electricity/

Amish often make use of electricity provided by diesel generators to power certain appliances. A device called an inverter converts 12V current into the 110V current that many devices run on.

 

[Evincere]

Duplicate deleted

 

[Brian W Street]

1) Treat it like it is a geodesic dome or similar complex property--very few potential buyers but also very limited supply.
2) What percentage of homes in that area are similar? OR what percentage of the population is Amish? I know several counties in NE IN with a decent sized Amish population.
3) Can you estimate a cost to retrofit the home with market-typical mechanicals? This cost, plus some entrepreneurial incentive, could make it more similar to homes with typical utilities.

No need to mention their name, religion or anything, just mention there is a small market segment in this area that prefers homes without X, Y, and Z. Can you talk to any local lenders and see how they have handled this in the past?

The big decision is do you approach this as is--a unique property, or as one that needs to be 'fixed' to become attractive to the market at large?

1. It is complex might be fewer domes in our market, glad that I haven't had one of those.
2. The answer to both would be nice to know for the work file but in general, I am going to stay away from discussing Amish and approach it just as a complex property.
3. I can roughly estimate $30k for electrical as the home is over 1,000' off the road and it would be a pain to run circuits, maybe $25k for heating/cooling as the home is over 3,000 sf but I could be way off on these numbers. Suggestions on an appropriate quality/condition adjustment as compared to standard homes would be appreciated.

 

[Overimprovement]

Suggestions on an appropriate quality/condition adjustment as compared to standard homes would be appreciated.

If some tangible (say more than a few) % of homes are similar, I would perhaps focus on the cost approach, and/or put a lot of weight on the one comp you said you had. In other words, no sense making the gist of the report how much it would cost to make a geo dome look more 'normal', when in fact there exists at least some market for the geo dome as it is (Using geo as an example).

If you go that route, there really is no condition or quality adjustment for the lack of these mechanicals. The issue would be the other two comps. You would have to attempt to extract a market reaction to a home with and without those mechanicals. May have to go way out in distance and back in time to try to find comps to build a case for your adjustments, but IF you can find them (for adjustment derivation, not the grid), you would be a lot safer using 'normal' houses as comps. My GUESS is that unless there is a non-trivial sub-market for these homes, there would be quite a hit for not having these mechanicals, because they would be pretty expensive to put in after construction.

The other factor is this--at least in my area, Amish don't mind purchasing homes WITH mechanicals, they just disconnect them. So even they aren't limited by that factor.

If this is a 1 out of 1,000 home in the marketplace, then this becomes fairly complex...

Good luck!

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Amish don't mind purchasing homes WITH mechanicals, they just disconnect them.

Sometimes I think the not so strict religious types go to great lengths to rationalize doing something they want to do.
I suppose in deference to (defiance of?) the elders.

I forget what is the thing with Jews and the strings along utility poles and around an area. Now our "home area" is expanded, or something. someone remind me. But it is kind of like that. Read in the Times few years ago.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

can I even mention that it is an Amish home?

Yes.

In a FNMA world, you're not supposed to talk about people

Fannie does not, nor do federal laws prevent making factual statements about race, etc. despite the ignorant underwriting stuff that you get about religious things etc.

actions that may have a discriminatory effect or may affect the use and value of the property; or
• basing the analysis or opinion of market value (either partially or completely) on the race, color, religion, sex, handicap,
familial status, or national origin, of either the prospective owners or occupants of the property being appraised or the
present owners or occupants of the properties in the vicinity of that property.
​

Stating that the home was built by a community who does not believe in electricity in their houses is a statement of fact. If you have one sale, that means adjusting non-Amish owned homes to get there. OR, go to another area where there are other Amish. E. Ohio, PA, MO, NE Okla, etc. We have quite a few families here but they are generally working on farms owned by non-Amish farmers in houses that are provided by their employer. Many have computers since these poultry farms are tied to a computer which alerts them of conditions in the poultry barns. And most carry cell phones. I've seen them pull over to use a cell phone.

Each community is run differently. Some have electricity, some do not. Some drive buggy and horse, some tractors, some even drive a vehicle, especially if it is their employers but that is rare. Our local ones are very fond of ATVs. Some allow women to drive tractors, some frown on it. The church is rarely a building, but more likely meet in someone's house. Old Order Mennonites are similar.

Your buyer pool is limited to others of like faith or folks willing to retrofit the house with electricity and generally, plumbing...So does it have running water and a bathroom?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

why is it okay to use DC and not AC?

Some use generators to operate dairy barns or even public electricity. In the 60s many had phones but it was in a phone booth outside the house. There are Amish farmers here who run conventional barns, and there are some up in Missouri selling organic free range chickens who feed with bucket feeders and gravity fed feed bins, and have no lights. Others not far away have lights and controllers but most things are done like we did chickens back in the 1960s, cross ventilation, turn the birds into the woods in hot weather, etc. Some who can also use a water ram pump to pump into a tank for gravity flow water.

The rules are set by the elder leaders and vary from group to group. They eschew it but tend to be practical about what is useful and what is not. They are not big on deodorant either in case you didn't notice.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Use the 2 y/o sale and sales of similar homes from that same time period as paired sales to determine an adjustment.

 

[Mark K]

The Amish in this area have some strange ideas about various power sources. One guy and his family installs a lot of fencing in that part of the state. He has a phone and fax machine in a telephone booth-size building separate from the house, that's OK.

Another powers his cabinet making shop, about 3,000 sf., with all pneumatic tools, air power is OK. That shop also has elec lights. There's a VERY big air compressor in a separate building run off the local power grid.

Another group that builds pole barns pays a guy to pick up the crew in an extended Ford Econoline van, deliver them to the jobsite and pick them up in the evening, that's OK, Amish Uber. They also get to use power tools building the barns.

Best I can tell is that its OK to use modern power and tools in their trades to make money but not at home.

There was a large Amish built home constructed for one of the 'elders'. About 3,000 s.f., very nice, no mechanicals, wiring, plumbing, etc. He sold it a auction and it went for about a 30-40% discount compared to a normal house.

 

[Overimprovement]

The Amish are not one, all-inclusive group, but rather a somewhat large number of related, but not identical sub-groups. Most still hold their church services in German, often by rotating through members' homes. The 'preacher' each week is sometimes not known until that morning--so all have to have something prepared. Each community is autonomous--there is no 'overseeing' hierarchy or anything.

Some own and drive cars, most do not. Some allow themselves to be driven. Some have full electric in their homes, some only have pumped well water and candles. Some will utilize modern tractors, many use only horses and non-mechanized farm implements.

One interesting fact is many still almost force their teenagers to leave the group and experience, firsthand, the world at large. Those who come back are expected to fully adhere to Amish customs after that. Most choose to come back, which is interesting. They have seen the other side, and yet return.