Any Suggestions On How To Find A Mentor?

[Hammerdown]

Thank you all for the advice!
Maybe it’s just our market here, but the problem is the appraisers I know are too busy. I know one that gets her report delivered in 24 hours. And she’s turning down work because there’s simply too much. Even the person I know who primarily does basic residentials is making around 100k a year. Someone else who does more diverse appraisals makes around 200k a year. Thing is, to learn the most, I would like to find someone who doesn’t blast through a job without giving me a chance to observe, or someone who doesn’t work in one specific are. The ideal situation would be to work with someone who works at a reasonable pace and has a diverse range. Can’t hurt to try and find a situation like that first.

im in your same boat... sort of. I havent even started my first class yet. Doing appraisal is something that has always interested me. I like field work. Im used to field work and I think thats why im interested in doing this. I am only 3 years away from a 20 year retirement in law enforcement, and as fun as my career has been, I think im ready to get out of it. Getting too old to fight people...lol. Ive been looking at the online courses and I think the Appraisal Institute looks to be the best out there for online training. I dont just want some cheapo class to get me past the tests, I want to learn how to do the job proficiently and competently. Finding a mentor is what has me a little stressed out, as like you im not sure where to turn once I have my training in.

As far as the market and appraiser jobs, from an appraiser that I talked to yesterday, there are not enough appraisers here to satisfy demand. The last home appraisal I paid for was in 2016 on our new home and it was $500.00. Granted, Im not privy yet to all the cost incursions of the appraiser, but assuming he spent 5 hours total on it, thats $100.00 per hour. Even at 10 hours invested, thats $50 an hour, more than the $30 an hour I make policing. Even if his expenses were $100.00, thats still a decent profit margin IMHO that I would be happy with.

I think some of the negativity on low prices and scare jobs are from folks in states that are in a slump? Where im at, the market, even when cold, is still providing realtors plenty of income, as I know several.

 

[Michigan CG]

As far as the market and appraiser jobs, from an appraiser that I talked to yesterday, there are not enough appraisers here to satisfy demand. The last home appraisal I paid for was in 2016 on our new home and it was $500.00. Granted, Im not privy yet to all the cost incursions of the appraiser, but assuming he spent 5 hours total on it, thats $100.00 per hour. Even at 10 hours invested, thats $50 an hour, more than the $30 an hour I make policing. Even if his expenses were $100.00, thats still a decent profit margin IMHO that I would be happy with.

It is easy to think about the appraiser making $100 per hour or $50/hour and think it would be a good gig. It is a good gig but there are a lot of unknowns to the general public. The $500 fee you paid most likely didn't go to the appraiser as most residential orders are through an AMC who is going to take at least $100 of that and more likely $150.

Let us say that the appraiser got paid $400. Out of the $400 the appraiser has about 15% expenses (that is my expense ratio +/-). That leaves $340. The appraiser is self-employed so he has to pay both halves of SS tax (7.65%) that you don't have to pay. So now we are down to $314. You most likely have retirement benefits, the appraiser doesn't have that. Health care costs for the self-employed have sky-rocketed since Obamacare was implemented. $60 of every report goes to health insurance (assuming a $1,500/month premium and 25 reports per month). We are now down to $254/report. We don't get paid vacations; subtract another $4/report.

It is pretty consistent in polling on this site that the average report takes about 6-7 hours to write. That would mean an income of about $36-$42/hour. Now that is significantly more than $30/hour but we also have to consider the risk involved in being self-employed and the possibilities of having no work. Many appraisers saw their incomes drop in half in 2008. What is the risk of losing work or having no work worth vs. having a guaranteed paycheck? Out of that $36-$42/hour we need to also put in for retirement.

Also, take into account when everyone else gets overtime for over 40 hours we don't.

So while we may NET $57-$67/hour we certainly don't see that in our bank accounts when all that is taken into consideration.

 

[Hammerdown]

It is easy to think about the appraiser making $100 per hour or $50/hour and think it would be a good gig. It is a good gig but there are a lot of unknowns to the general public. The $500 fee you paid most likely didn't go to the appraiser as most residential orders are through an AMC who is going to take at least $100 of that and more likely $150.

Let us say that the appraiser got paid $400. Out of the $400 the appraiser has about 15% expenses (that is my expense ratio +/-). That leaves $340. The appraiser is self-employed so he has to pay both halves of SS tax (7.65%) that you don't have to pay. So now we are down to $314. You most likely have retirement benefits, the appraiser doesn't have that. Health care costs for the self-employed have sky-rocketed since Obamacare was implemented. $60 of every report goes to health insurance (assuming a $1,500/month premium and 25 reports per month). We are now down to $254/report. We don't get paid vacations; subtract another $4/report.

It is pretty consistent in polling on this site that the average report takes about 6-7 hours to write. That would mean an income of about $36-$42/hour. Now that is significantly more than $30/hour but we also have to consider the risk involved in being self-employed and the possibilities of having no work. Many appraisers saw their incomes drop in half in 2008. What is the risk of losing work or having no work worth vs. having a guaranteed paycheck? Out of that $36-$42/hour we need to also put in for retirement.

Also, take into account when everyone else gets overtime for over 40 hours we don't.

So while we may NET $57-$67/hour we certainly don't see that in our bank accounts when all that is taken into consideration.

Thank you so much for your reply this is exactly why I'm on here is to try to learn exactly what I'm looking at getting into. You're right I do have or will have a retirement pension check coming in every month which certainly is going to be a big factor in my decision on what I do post-retirement because I can focus more on something that I think I would like to do vs something just for money. This is something I don't plan on rushing into either even though I could technically retire at 20 years our pension goes all the way up to year 30 and is 75% of my salary at year 30 which is a pretty good chunk of change.

That's why I put in my original post that I'm not privy to how much expenses and things like that appraisers have that come out of there charge for service. that's why I'm on here to try to figure all that out. Every appraiser I've ever met appears to be living about the same lifestyle that I do on $30 an hour, so I kind of figured a man can make a living off of it but you're not going to get rich which is most professions nowadays. I turn 40 this year so I'm still young enough to keep doing this job for a while if I need to but old enough to start thinking about what I'm going to do in the next 5 to 10 years because the job that I do is a young man's job and I already feel it everyday. I don't want to do it after I'm over the age of 50 for sure.

My plan is to start the schooling here later this year I'm probably going to have to do some additional College too. I do have an Associates but it's in police science. I don't know if any of that's going to be recognized towards the college requirement for a certified appraiser. Its most likely that I probably have at least half if not more of the required 30 college hours in classes like English and Mathematics that would apply. I'm not opposed to doing some college courses, probably target some more math courses for this to meet the requirements and further my education in the area.

I do quite a bit of algebra and trigonometry in my daily job is I do the accident reconstruction work for my department but it's completely different then Financial calculations as I have found out by simply watching how a HP12 calculator works. Completely different.

Im more used to working with sine cosine and tangent buttons... but I figure if I can work with drag factors and solve linear momentum equations on cars crashing then I can probably learn these financial calculations.

This is something I plan on and doing over the course of the next three to five years is getting my training and education and logging my hours of experience and getting proficient, hopefully under a mentor who wants to teach so that when I'm ready I can retire from this profession and pick up the torch on the next one.

The kind of information you have provided in your post is exactly why them on this forum to learn to get an idea of exactly how the appraisal process works how much money one can expect to make as well as the pitfalls and the possibilities.

I enjoy reading the posts on this forum to about where this profession is going and how it's changing. I realize that this is a profession that I will have to keep up with the latest updates to legal and everything else which is nothing new I've had to do that for this other job for 17 years now and it's nowhere near the job that it was when I first started.

Again thanks for your insightful post.

 

[DonRico]

To my Ocean County friend -- you were given some good leads on this thread. You might start by offering to set-up the basic forms using the Appraisal software. Think how much more these Appraisers could accomplish if they had the 1004 pre-filled when they got back from observations. Think how much more useful you would be if you knew your way around the software. Got Computer skills ?? These Home Offices could use somebody who could keep the hamster running inside the PC.

Ocean County has good public data sites, do you know where to find octaxrecords ?? Get familiar with the data and present yourself as knowledgeable in the verification process. Do you have any access to Monmouth/Ocean MLS ?? Gathered a list of each town's Tax Assessor Name and number ??

Do you have any home construction experience ?? Can you spot a 30-year roof from the street ?? Can you tell the difference between Cedar and Pine ?? What's a 10 penny nail look like ??

How's your photography skills ?? Can you take interior photos without the bright windows clamping down on the aperture ??

Just out of curiosity......where'd you take your first 75 hours ?? Does the name George Yeager mean anything to you ??

 

[George Hatch]

Thank you so much for your reply this is exactly why I'm on here is to try to learn exactly what I'm looking at getting into. You're right I do have or will have a retirement pension check coming in every month which certainly is going to be a big factor in my decision on what I do post-retirement because I can focus more on something that I think I would like to do vs something just for money. This is something I don't plan on rushing into either even though I could technically retire at 20 years our pension goes all the way up to year 30 and is 75% of my salary at year 30 which is a pretty good chunk of change.

That's why I put in my original post that I'm not privy to how much expenses and things like that appraisers have that come out of there charge for service. that's why I'm on here to try to figure all that out. Every appraiser I've ever met appears to be living about the same lifestyle that I do on $30 an hour, so I kind of figured a man can make a living off of it but you're not going to get rich which is most professions nowadays. I turn 40 this year so I'm still young enough to keep doing this job for a while if I need to but old enough to start thinking about what I'm going to do in the next 5 to 10 years because the job that I do is a young man's job and I already feel it everyday. I don't want to do it after I'm over the age of 50 for sure.

My plan is to start the schooling here later this year I'm probably going to have to do some additional College too. I do have an Associates but it's in police science. I don't know if any of that's going to be recognized towards the college requirement for a certified appraiser. Its most likely that I probably have at least half if not more of the required 30 college hours in classes like English and Mathematics that would apply. I'm not opposed to doing some college courses, probably target some more math courses for this to meet the requirements and further my education in the area.

I do quite a bit of algebra and trigonometry in my daily job is I do the accident reconstruction work for my department but it's completely different then Financial calculations as I have found out by simply watching how a HP12 calculator works. Completely different.

Im more used to working with sine cosine and tangent buttons... but I figure if I can work with drag factors and solve linear momentum equations on cars crashing then I can probably learn these financial calculations.

This is something I plan on and doing over the course of the next three to five years is getting my training and education and logging my hours of experience and getting proficient, hopefully under a mentor who wants to teach so that when I'm ready I can retire from this profession and pick up the torch on the next one.

The kind of information you have provided in your post is exactly why them on this forum to learn to get an idea of exactly how the appraisal process works how much money one can expect to make as well as the pitfalls and the possibilities.

I enjoy reading the posts on this forum to about where this profession is going and how it's changing. I realize that this is a profession that I will have to keep up with the latest updates to legal and everything else which is nothing new I've had to do that for this other job for 17 years now and it's nowhere near the job that it was when I first started.

Again thanks for your insightful post.

I was a cop for a few years prior to getting into appraising and I found a lot of parallels. It was an easy transition for me.

You know how to write a structured report in concise and clear language, you know how to measure and draw a diagram, you know distances and directions and maps (lots of people can't get the hang of that), and you're accustomed to people lying to you on a regular basis because...well, because people will lie when it's in their best interests to do so. You've got the emotional detachment gene and are accustomed to observe and report without regard for what people might want you to do for them.

Don't sweat the math, it's mostly arithmetic and basic algebra, with a few geometry basics. Most of the calculations are built into the software or else performed on a spreadsheet anyway.

Some years back I was teaching a continuing education course for appraisers, and we were using a meeting room at a hotel. In the next room over there was a continuing education seminar for mid-level cops (sargeants and field supervisors with the San Diego Police Dept). The two rooms went on break at the same time and for the most part you couldn't tell which were the cops and which were the appraisers.

My role model as an appraiser is this guy:

 

[Hammerdown]

I was a cop for a few years prior to getting into appraising and I found a lot of parallels. It was an easy transition for me.

You know how to write a structured report in concise and clear language, you know how to measure and draw a diagram, you know distances and directions and maps (lots of people can't get the hang of that), and you're accustomed to people lying to you on a regular basis because...well, because people will lie when it's in their best interests to do so. You've got the emotional detachment gene and are accustomed to observe and report without regard for what people might want you to do for them.

Don't sweat the math, it's mostly arithmetic and basic algebra, with a few geometry basics. Most of the calculations are built into the software or else performed on a spreadsheet anyway.

Some years back I was teaching a continuing education course for appraisers, and we were using a meeting room at a hotel. In the next room over there was a continuing education seminar for mid-level cops (sargeants and field supervisors with the San Diego Police Dept). The two rooms went on break at the same time and for the most part you couldn't tell which were the cops and which were the appraisers.

My role model as an appraiser is this guy:

this might explain why I find myself so interested in this line of work for post retirement. lol I enjoy my current job, but as I said, its a young mans game and I want out of it definately by the time im 50. Im at a small dept so there is no where to go other than working the streets, which I do continue to enjoy. Too many kids and too young to retire completely, plus thats just not me. I want to keep moving, cant sit still for long. Looking for something that has no age limit and I love the idea of working for myself and like field work.

Thanks for the reply!

PS. - Joe has always been my role model too... lol

 

[Red Flint]

Prepare some sample reports, want to approach mentors with a quid pro quo, to make them money. Software is $400, appraise your house and friend’s houses, get a student access to the MLS via sweet talk, or just use listings. White out all of the subject details, have PDF ready of your sample 1040 with a MC and cost approach and income approach all filled out with super land sales. If you cannot access MLS, use listings for your comps, make sure Sample Report is on every page.

Visit open houses, meet realtors, offer to sketch (sketch software is in $400 bundle), find out who is appraising it, offer to show sketch, remember to always cover yourself though with big Sample disclaimers in case there is a boo boo. Want to be able to measure quickly and accurately, and inspect thoroughly. This is what to offer a mentor, a form ready appraiser-in-training. A big smile and open handshake goes a long way towards collaring new clients for your mentor’s office.

 

[WillWorkForTraining]

First post here, I’ll be around here and there so wanted to introduce myself and also wanted to be sure we bump this great thread. Before that though, just want to thank those of you who responded with some really great advice in this thread. I get the internal conflict that must come with the desire to give back to the profession on one hand and deal with over supply on the other.

I’m a current corporate finance professional looking to move into real estate appraisal. This is a long term goal for me, don’t plan to move into the field anytime soon (seems to happen to a lot of us around 40 as a career shift). When I do move into it it will be as a part time job in my semi retirement. More to just keep busy doing something interesting and get the hell out from behind a desk!

With my background, I think I can offer a step above most trainees on the analytics side, of course I’m lacking on the field skills, but I guess that’s all part of it. Plan to take the basic “book” education shortly, become California Trainee certified and then begin the long treck for experience hours( good thing I’m not in a rush!). Not to hijack the thread, but encourage any of you veterans to reply here with any advice, experiences in the field, pros/cons regarding the profession, anything else you wish you knew when you started. Thanks for anything you can share, it is a huge help to a lot of us beginners.....

 

[Red Flint]

. Thanks for anything you can share, it is a huge help to a lot of us beginners.....

Try community college for basic real estate appraisal, good networking and teacher will likely be locally connected. Measure and sketch where you live, your friend's places, plot the legal descriptions. Study local commercial leases, listings, note sales of land and buildings. Get to know your market. Widen your viewpoint, attend assessor meetings, appraisal institute meetings, bar association - real property, etc. Envision your team - accountant, attorney, insurer, peers. Save money.

 

[bnmappraisal]

First post here, I’ll be around here and there so wanted to introduce myself and also wanted to be sure we bump this great thread. Before that though, just want to thank those of you who responded with some really great advice in this thread. I get the internal conflict that must come with the desire to give back to the profession on one hand and deal with over supply on the other.

I’m a current corporate finance professional looking to move into real estate appraisal. This is a long term goal for me, don’t plan to move into the field anytime soon (seems to happen to a lot of us around 40 as a career shift). When I do move into it it will be as a part time job in my semi retirement. More to just keep busy doing something interesting and get the hell out from behind a desk!

With my background, I think I can offer a step above most trainees on the analytics side, of course I’m lacking on the field skills, but I guess that’s all part of it. Plan to take the basic “book” education shortly, become California Trainee certified and then begin the long treck for experience hours( good thing I’m not in a rush!). Not to hijack the thread, but encourage any of you veterans to reply here with any advice, experiences in the field, pros/cons regarding the profession, anything else you wish you knew when you started. Thanks for anything you can share, it is a huge help to a lot of us beginners.....

I appreciate your honesty and definitely can appreciate it. I honestly do wish you the best of luck, especially since you are definitely not my "competition" being 3,000 mi away! (joke)

I guess the one thing that jumped out at me in your post is (my bold) Don't take this personally, as you are definitely NOT the first/only person I've heard/read this from (both in person and on this forum).

But a statement like this, personally to me as a full time, career appraiser ... is annoying to hear. This isn't just a "part time" gig and definitely isn't for everyone. I've said it before and will say it again. You have to WANT to become an appraiser. Believe me, I hear it from friends of mine that I've known for years. Many people have NO IDEA what it takes, let alone what we do. And that's fine! I sort of prefer it that way. I still have friends I've known for over 10 years that think I'm a home inspector (I am not, btw). I tell/correct them all the time that I am not, but to them (general public) ???

Something I would tell any person who thinks they would like to be an appraiser: It's NOT easy, it takes a lot of dedication and should not be looked at as simply a "part time gig" (remember, your name/license is on the line every time you sign a report)