Appraisal Buzz Interview With Don Kelly

[Carnivore]

George,

It would appear that the new ed requirements will bring the SRA's down to the current residential low lifes., or maybe they will meet in the middle.

The upside is the number of appraisers will decline.

The AI does not quite get it when it comes to residential work. If SRA meant more money then appraisers would knock AI's doors down to get in just like they do for Ivery league schools and others.

All AI has to understand is why Duke, UNCC(tar heels), MIT, VT, Harvard, Yale, Wake Forest etc etc etc turn away undergraduate applicants?

Once they understand that they will understand how to get new members.

It really is that simple.

Masters of Supply and demand and market needs. If I can see the why, then why cant they.

PHD - 10-12 years

Masters 6-8 years

4 years for most BS or BA Degrees. Some engineering take 5 years

Associates 2 years

 

[George Hatch]

It would appear that the new ed requirements will bring the SRA's down to the current residential low lifes., or maybe they will meet in the middle.

I would prefer to think of the increased requirements for licensure as bringing the minimums up rather than reducing the standing of the designations. I also think that at whatever point the gap in qualifications gets reduced, then the "value added" aspects of professional affiliation are going to end up being measured strictly by performance. Or perhaps I should say, the public's perception of performance. Just as with the licensing system, qualifications alone do not solve all problems.

I still think that qualifications is a side issue; the really big issue facing both systems is how to get all or almost all of their respective groups to perform according to the party line. Appraiser Competency is relatively easy; Appraiser Ethics is apparently hard.

I think the AIs problem with their residential membership and to a lesser extent with their commercial membership has more to do with the extent of the public's perception that there is no significant difference in performance between a licensee and a professional designee. Both groups have their heros and both groups have their villains. I think the AI is in a much better position to turn that perception around just because they are a single national group with a single standard, whereas the state licensing boards are many. But I don't think that beating the qualifications drum - by itself - is going to do it for them.

 

[moh malekpour]

I say go AI. The more they push their membership benefits, the more they push the appraisal profession. It can only be good for all appraisers

Randy,
It can only be good for all appraisers if all appraisers become designated. I don’t know if your are designated or not but how Mr. Kelly’s suggestion would benefit me who is not designated if title XI permits federally related lenders to prioritize designated appraisers because the designation is an indication of proficiency, professionalism and high standards. How about the rest of us who are not designated? How we can prove that we are professionals and have high ethical standards too if the designation promoters are the only game in town? If I were a designated appraiser, I would certainly say go AI but since I am not, I would say it is not going to benefit me so please don’t say this is a promotion for all appraisers. Say just what it is. It is a promotion for AI members and if it were accepted by title XI, it wouldn’t benefit me unless I become one of them and since I cannot afford to pay for license fee and designation; I may be pushed out of business or to the end of the line.
Suppose a lender has 10 assignments and has 15 appraisers in their approved list. with 10 of them designated and 5 not, Who do you think is going to get those 10 assignments? All of them go to designated appraisers and non-designated appraisers cannot say a thing because it is going to be a guideline. So, non-designated appraisers have two choices: get out of business or become designated.

 

[Couch Potato]

Originally posted by moh malekpour@May 7 2005, 10:11 AM
Suppose a lender has 10 assignments and has 15 appraisers in their approved list. with 10 of them designated and 5 not, Who do you think is going to get those 10 assignments? All of them go to designated appraisers and non-designated appraisers cannot say a thing because it is going to be a guideline. So, non-designated appraisers have two choices: get out of business or become designated.

Sounds good to me. If there are only 10 assignments for every 15 appraisers, some of them need to go out of business. It probably should be the ones that are struggling to make ends meet since they would be more susceptible to undue influence by clients and homeowners.

I do not intend the comment as an insult to undesignated appraisers (I am one of them), but merely to point out that appraisers being put out of business would be more a function of too many appraisers chasing too few jobs. Clients ought to be able to consider all factors including membership in professional organizations if they think the factor has relevance.

If the same bank had 30 assignments for the same 15 appraisers do you think only the 10 would get them if the other 5 were know to be reliable with good turn times? If the undesignated appraisers perform as well and charge 5% less, don't you think they would get plenty of work?

 

[moh malekpour]

Sounds good to me. If there are only 10 assignments for every 15 appraisers, some of them need to go out of business. It probably should be the ones that are struggling to make ends meet since they would be more susceptible to undue influence by clients and homeowners.

Greg,

The point was that asking the Title XI to permit designation to be the indicator of proficiency, professionalism and higher ethical standards which indicates that non designated appraisers be considered less professional with less ethical standards is good for all appraisers. I said that the acceptability of that suggestion is good for designated appraisers but not for all appraisers because non-designated appraisers are going to get less work or get out of business. Am I wrong?

You said it sounds good to you if there are not enough work for all appraisers, the first group who should get out of business be non-designated appraisers because they are more susceptible to undue influence by clients and homeowners.

What do you mean by “they are more susceptible to undue influence”.
Do you mean they are less wealthy? less educated?, less qualified?, the have less ethical standards? What is your criteria for susceptibility and non-susceptibility? Designation? If it is, I better get a designation real quick.

 

[Jim Onderisin]

My understanding proposed rule is a little different. It seems to me the AI is trying to undo the perceived wrongs done to it in the initial licensing legislation. That legislation said designation was not to be the sole criteria for making appraisal assignments. Lenders now think they can't consider designations when assigning jobs. I think the AI is just trying to clarification that designations can and should be considered by lenders as indications of individuals held to higher professional standards. Doesn't matter if that's true or not. The point is that AI is trying to get some satisfaction for a former perceived injustice.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Clients ought to be able to consider all factors including membership in professional organizations if they think the factor has relevance.

clients do, all the time. It just meant federally regulated lenders cannot use designations as the basis for choosing appraisers. There was a fight over this 15 yr. ago as I recall. Kinda like seperation of church and state

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Here's what SEC 1122 of Title XI says now:

(d) Prohibition against discrimination. Criteria established by the Federal financial institutions regulatory agencies, the Federal National Mortgage Association, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, and the Resolution Trust Corporation for appraiser qualifications in addition to State certification or licensing shall not exclude a certified or licensed appraiser for consideration for an assignment solely by virtue of membership or lack of membership in any particular appraisal organization.

A prior Section, SEC 1116, reads like this:

(d) Additional qualification criteria. Nothing in this title shall be construed to prevent any Federal agency or instrumentality under this title from establishing such additional qualification criteria as may be necessary or appropriate to carry out the statutory responsibilities of such department, agency, or instrumentality.

The bill propose this language:

CONSIDERATION OF PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL DESIGNATIONS

Section 1122(d)of the Financial Institutions Reform,Recovery,and Enforcement Act of 1989 (12 U.S.C.3351(d)) is amended by adding at the end the
following new sentence:

‘‘Consideration may be given for professional appraisal designations conferred by sponsoring organizations of The Appraisal Foundation as an indication of proficiency in addition to the criteria established by certification or licensing.’’

Under the law as it is now, a Federal Agency (Federally Regulated Lender) could establish that a designation is an indication of "additional qualifications". Appraisers cannot be selected solely on the basis of membership or designation and cannot be excluded solely on the basis of lack of designation or membership.

When you get right down to it, what is the change? The language proposed is an addition. Membership, designation, or lack thereof, still cannot be the sole determinant to use or exclude an appraiser.

 

[PL1957]

Originally posted by moh malekpour@May 7 2005, 01:06 PM
The point was that asking the Title XI to permit designation to be the indicator of proficiency, professionalism and higher ethical standards which indicates that non designated appraisers be considered less professional with less ethical standards is good for all appraisers.

I have a really difficult time understanding how any appraiser who is serious in his profession could NOT belong to a professional association and not be working toward a professional designation. Between that AI, NAIFA, ASA, etc., I would think everyone could find a group which has the proper mix of cameraderie, classes, designations, etc. to make everyone happy.

Yeah, I have a designation. I worked hard to get it and I'm proud of it. Do I think a client should be able to use it as an indication that I've gone past the minimal education requirements? You bet I do. I think additional classes, peer review of my work, completion of a demo and passing a comprehensive exam has made me a better appraiser than "Joe down the street" who took his hours from a diploma mill. I think clients should be able to take that into consideration.

Do the provisions say the MAI/SRA/IFA/ASA are the only indicators of competence? No. But it's a damn good start.

 

[NC Old Guy]

Jim hit it right on. Too many users of appraisal services got the absolutely nutty idea that they couldn't use someone with a designation. All the rules said were "solely" as both Jim & Frank said. (I even had one lender some years ago plead for me NOT to tell them I had an SRA because then they might not be able to use me. :blink: I doubt it was much of a loss.)

I find it fascinating that AI has been used as a long term punching bag on this forum for not going to bat for their members or all appraisers (whether they're paying dues or not), and on all sorts of issues. Then, when AI does get proactive about ANYTHING, too many are agast and fearful that perhaps all of the work that some have put into the designations of AI (& the other reputable appraisal organizations) might actually be worth something. This thread was about the legistlation (or which the designation issue is a VERY small part) and there was a former thread about the radio commercials that are being test marketed. Both had some similar responses as to HOW DARE THEY!!!!

That particular piece of legislation should help appraisers more than anything in recent time. And it is not just AI but is co-sponsored by others. Gosh, perhaps if those appraisers who thought this legislation might just help more than hurt would help push their representatives, there is even a small chance that this profession (if one can losely call it that) might be improved. For those that consider AI to be the evil empire & nothing with their name on it can ever be worthwhile, what can I say?

Leon
SRA