Appraiser didn't measure during interior inspection

[Mike Garrett RAA]

Some interesting thoughts...

In my market, real estate agents seldom, if ever, measure properties they list. They use what is of public record and believe this limits their liability.

In my market, since about 1970, builders were required to submit plans to the assessor's office. Sketches were made from the plans. The assessor measured to the nearest .5 foot. Reasonable accuracy; however, not all newer additions appear on the cards.

In Colorado, ANSI is not a requirement.

If someone is going to check my work, the first place they go is the public record.

I have seen appraisals done by three different appraisers on the same property and none had the same GLA. Who was right? Who was wrong? All claimed to have personally measured the property.

There is no one right answer to the question. USPAP does say the appraiser is responsible for the accuracy of the data used in the appraisal and subsequent report.

How important is a difference of, say, 66 square feet? 66SF as a percentage of what total square feet or GLA? If your adjustment for GLA is, say $25 a foot...that would be $1650. If it was $50 a SF that would be $3,300. What percent of total value is that?

Lastly, remember, people who live in glass houses should never throw rocks. If you decide to file a complaint be sure your shorts are squeaky clean.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Let's discuss human nature and the appraiser next...

BTW, I believe my peers would look at inspecting the same model as a windfall and not tape it. So where does that leave us Mr. Webbed?

Mr. Canoza,

It leaves Mr. Webbed as not part of the "us" in that. For one specific reason being a house I purchased was a supposedly perfect mirror image of the one right next to it. Only the foundation subcontractor really goofed up and poured the foundation for the one next door incorrectly. Which was not discovered until after construction was well under way. So the builder had to not only fudge all the interior walls to get the floor plan to work, but had to build the staircase and adjacent hallway extra narrow due to it. I found out after walking through both in picking one out and bluntly asked what the heck was up with the house next door to the one I bought.

So, because there are more lawsuits over incorrectly measured and reported square footage than any other cause of lawsuits in real estate.. or so I hear.... I would suggest you bloody well DISCLOSE you used measurements from a "model match" and did not measure your subject.

But as always, nobody needs to take any advice from me. ..

Webbed.

 

[Rudy Canoza]

Mr. Canoza,

It leaves Mr. Webbed as not part of the "us" in that. For one specific reason being a house I purchased was a supposedly perfect mirror image of the one right next to it. Only the foundation subcontractor really goofed up and poured the foundation for the one next door incorrectly. Which was not discovered until after construction was well under way. So the builder had to not only fudge all the interior walls to get the floor plan to work, but had to build the staircase and adjacent hallway extra narrow due to it. I found out after walking through both in picking one out and bluntly asked what the heck was up with the house next door to the one I bought.

So, because there are more lawsuits over incorrectly measured and reported square footage than any other cause of lawsuits in real estate.. or so I hear.... I would suggest you bloody well DISCLOSE you used measurements from a "model match" and did not measure your subject.

But as always, nobody needs to take any advice from me. ..

Webbed.

Mr. Webbed, my point wasn't the issue of the accuracy of the builder from unit to unit. As you pointed out "that their unusual act not in keeping with their peers acts" as paraphrased from USPAP, if peers would not measure a similar tract home nor disclose it, how would one expect to enforce the rule?

 

[PropertyEconomics]

Mr. Webbed, my point wasn't the issue of the accuracy of the builder from unit to unit. As you pointed out "that their unusual act not in keeping with their peers acts" as paraphrased from USPAP, if peers would not measure a similar tract home nor disclose it, how would one expect to enforce the rule?

Well I guess there is one set of peers that measure and one set of peers that dont ... wonder which set you will get as you stand before your board ... having not measured????

I keep harping on this ... MEASURE .. if you get the peer group that doesnt how can they argue with you? DONT MEASURE and get the peer group that does .. your toast.

Looks like measurement is the only way to make sure you cover both group of peers. Interesting how that works. Diligence wins again.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Mr. Garrett,

And I will enjoy adding a few interesting thoughts of my own that I can document if anyone cares for me to.

Some interesting thoughts...

In my market, real estate agents seldom, if ever, measure properties they list. They use what is of public record and believe this limits their liability.

A material fact is any matter that an ordinary buyer or seller, we might read this "person," would use to make a decision, or offer, different if the person knew the truth. A fact is material if it is one which the agent should realize would be likely to affect the judgement of the principal in rendering any decision relative to the subject of the agency. Failure to disclose a material fact consititutes a violation of the trust.

Innocent Misrepresentation: occurs where the agent repeated information from a source ordinarily deemed to be reliable, but the information was incorrect. Normally protected if the source is the seller, the broker or agent will be responsible for matters the broker knows the principal could not, or did not, know about. Fraud, negligent misrepresentation and innocent misrepresentation are "Actual" once stated orally or in writing. They are "constructive" when there is a duty to disclose, but no disclosure is made.

Given the above, what do we think can happen to an agent that uses unconfirmed and incorrect public record GLA information, fails to dislose they are using public information only, without the knowledge of their principal, and orally or in writing provides said incorrect information to a buyer?

Shall we extend any of the above to a real estate appraiser, that proceeds to use incorrect public information, when clients and intended users all believe the GLA estimate was the appraiser's own opinion from the appraiser's personal measurements? With no disclosure at all in the appraiser's report what was actually used and not verified?

Connection? I have no idea. ... But I thought it was all interesting. I guess the appraiser is lucky there is no agency, just a contract.

Webbed.

 

[Mountain Man]

Scope of work, scope of work, scope of work. There is nothing in USPAP that requires an inspection of any kind... it boils down to the scope of work.

 

[Scott Kibler]

Personally I would not fail to measure a property in which the SOW called for interior inspection. Too much risk for error for not that much work.

I would probably not drill a report for inaccruate GLA in a review assignment in which the reported GLA matched assessor records unless those records were obviously in error and the GLA grossly misrepresented. However, it would be addressed.

 

[Rudy Canoza]

Mr. Economics, you have made the extraordinary assumption, and derailed my point having done so, that because I am arguing enforcement, I, by some twisted sort of logic, must be one of the appraisers who doesn't measure my subject property.

Lecture and moral high-ground aside, how could the state board prove that the appraiser didn't measure any given subject property? And in the overall scheme of things, how does measuring a stucco box like a thousand other stucco boxes compare to valuation fraud by poor comp selection?

I guess what I'm saying is that state boards are under staffed, under funded, and would probably take more serious appraisal crimes as a priority over measuring a tract home.

 

[Webbed Feet]

Mr. Webbed, my point wasn't the issue of the accuracy of the builder from unit to unit. As you pointed out "that their unusual act not in keeping with their peers acts" as paraphrased from USPAP, if peers would not measure a similar tract home nor disclose it, how would one expect to enforce the rule?

Mr. Canoza,

See my post #25. This goes far beyond peers, as that is only part of the equation. It starts and finally ends with lack of disclosure, something I typically find by what started this thread. The appraiser failed to disclose the use of public information versus the appraiser arriving at their own estimated opinion of the improvement size. What do we do if a 03/2005 2055 is ordered (ignoring snide comments about it)? We disclose we used county, public information, or other information and did not measure. However, what normally happens when a 03/2005 1004 is used and some appraiser pulls this stuff? Sometimes it is VERY obvious to any other appraiser that they just scanned in a public sketch with no dimensions on it and plagerized the building measurements. Just not so obvious to their client and intended users that are relying on that report.

I'd like to end my part in this debate for the day. Any of you that just use county sketches and plagerize measurements for use in a SOW requiring reporting on the 1004 report..... why don't all of you loudly and clearly DISCLOSE you never bothered to measure and your only reason was in order to go faster.. see what happens from underwriting.

Webbed.

 

[Webbed Feet]

<snip> ....
Lecture and moral high-ground aside, how could the state board prove that the appraiser didn't measure any given subject property?

Well I WAS going to shut up and go away...! LOL! ... Mr. Canoza, do you really think the appraisers doing this are smart?

How about a floor plan that was scanned in that lacked any measurements of any kind, with the "GLA" for each floor obviously handwritten on it showing the total for each floor only, no calculations, and the numbers just happen to magically perfectly match the Metroscan numbers per floor? What was said earlier about no two appraisers measuring hardly anything the same?

Do you seriously think something like that is tough for board administrators to figure out?

Webbed.