AQB's latest dumbing down by 'Stakeholders' Dropping the College Degree Requirement

[DWiley]

Obviously, you know what Chad was saying, and it wasn't about appeasing the majority vote. Rather, that 99% of comments made could be voicing various legitimate concern and reason for it, only to be brushed aside to do what they wanted anyway. This isn't the first exposure draft I've seen go that way.

I have provided many comment letters to the ASB over the past thirty years. I sent them letters before I was an ASB member, and I have sent several since leaving the ASB. In every case I presented what I thought was well thought out reasoning for why they should or should not do something. Shockingly, they did not always act in the manner that I suggested, despite my well supported (IMHO) reasoning

Many of the topics the TAF boards address, including the topic of the degree requirement, are quite complex. And it is perfectly natural that intelligent, well intentioned people may disagree. We see that quite often in this community.

Disagreement does not mean they are not listening. When I chaired the ASB, the ASB members would come to meetings with all kinds of notes, highlights, etc. from the various comment letters. Those letters had been given very serious consideration. And yes, there were times were the vast majority favored one thing, but the position presented by the minority was simply better supported - that is why it is not a tabulation or opinion poll.

As I once told my wife before an ASB public meeting, even if we made the best possible decision, we were going to make someone upset

 

[George Hatch]

we have to be the only profession in the world where active participants argue on behalf of lowering the bar of entry. I’ve never seen anything like it. Doesn’t have to be a four-year degree, and it could be a degree in anything, maybe associates degree in a specific discipline would suffice. But to eliminate any and all education requirements is idiotic. But it does fall in line with what I’ve come to expect from leadership over the last 15 years.

I was at an appraisal board meeting years ago, and someone on the board, I forget who, put it best - anything that’s worth getting should have some sort of bar that must be achieved or a little difficulty in achieving it. Otherwise it has no value.

20 years ago I thought taking two week class and working under somebody for 24 months was a pretty damn easy bar to get into a career. A hell of a lot easier than what I did for engineering.

Now we’re on a path to graduate high school pay the appraisal Institute $5000 for a couple YouTube videos and you can be an appraiser too. And it’s always the same people and groups at the top that are pushing the profession in this direction. After being on the wrong side of every issue for the last 10+ years, you think some people would change their tune.

I have repeatedly said that I agreed with adding *some* additional academic qualifications but that it doesn't take a degree to become a competent appraiser. I have also said I strongly disagree with using PAREA for experience. Neither of those are examples of me advocating for lowering the bar.

I'll pose the same question to you: do you really think the forum regulars who have gone their entire careers without a college education have been incapable of performing to specs? Because thats the only way your argument connects to any reasoning; that none of them should have been licensed in the first place without earning the college degree.

 

[DWiley]

. But to eliminate any and all education requirements is idiotic.

Who is proposing that?

Over the years I have taken far more interest in the work of the ASB as compared to the work of the AQB. But, it does seem to me personally that something is very broken in the current process. And, to be clear my view is not based on any goal to increase or decrease the number of appraisers.

My view is driven by the posts we see here on a pretty regular basis. A prime example was a recent post where an appraiser was asking the AF community for help in explaining to a reviewer how he had developed his GLA adjustment rate. How does someone hold a CR and not know how to support his own GLA adjustment rate?

 

[George Hatch]

Who is proposing that?

Over the years I have taken far more interest in the work of the ASB as compared to the work of the AQB. But, it does seem to me personally that something is very broken in the current process. And, to be clear my view is not based on any goal to increase or decrease the number of appraisers.

My view is driven by the posts we see here on a pretty regular basis. A prime example was a recent post where an appraiser was asking the AF community for help in explaining to a reviewer how he had developed his GLA adjustment rate. How does someone hold a CR and not know how to support his own GLA adjustment rate?

Because they didn't go to college so therefore they were incapable of remembering anything from their Appraisal 101 course?

 

[jay trotta]

Probably a majority of the (still practicing) regulars on this forum do AMC work. Do you think we have reason to assume there has been a high percentage of grossly overvalued appraisals that's more/less specific to the AMC assignments?

There's another thread going right now that's complaining about reviewers doing too much. All of the "racial bias" cases are alleging a gross undervaluation and it appears all or almost all of them were AMC assignments. Additionally, one of the value-related complaints about appraisals that is making the rounds right now is that appraisers have been refusing to make market conditions adjustments even though they're noting increasing value trends in their neighborhood analyses. How do these factors square up with an assumption that the low cost appraisers have been grossly overvaluing properties? That is, doing so much more often than the non-AMC assignments.

In theory, an appraisal report can contain spelling errors and cutting corners in the analysis and other shortcuts and sloppiness without posing a significant risk of a gross overvaluation. "Sloppy" can also be "overvalued", but sometimes sloppy will just be sloppy. Assuming appraisers always do less when the fee is lower than they do when the fees are higher.

Agreed, mistake #1 - HVCC, gave power to the wrong people; #2- if I can control Fee's (C&R joke) I can control value, as noted above;
when anyone becomes accustom a workflow (pre-2008, Fed requiring Independent Value appraisals-via Fed Certification;1988-1990) and unless pre-preparation has been part of your business practice, very difficult to change up after 20-30 years in business.
#3-just eliminate all previously developed clientele and business development, therefore, allowing greater control of all your clients developed over any period of time.
#4-Most settlements do not provide support for wrongdoing, it becomes a matter of "time & money", therefore allowing more control to a prevailing party.

just sitting on the sidelines, watching.........

 

[J Grant]

I

I have provided many comment letters to the ASB over the past thirty years. I sent them letters before I was an ASB member, and I have sent several since leaving the ASB. In every case I presented what I thought was well thought out reasoning for why they should or should not do something. Shockingly, they did not always act in the manner that I suggested, despite my well supported (IMHO) reasoning

Many of the topics the TAF boards address, including the topic of the degree requirement, are quite complex. And it is perfectly natural that intelligent, well intentioned people may disagree. We see that quite often in this community.

Disagreement does not mean they are not listening. When I chaired the ASB, the ASB members would come to meetings with all kinds of notes, highlights, etc. from the various comment letters. Those letters had been given very serious consideration. And yes, there were times were the vast majority favored one thing, but the position presented by the minority was simply better supported - that is why it is not a tabulation or opinion poll.

As I once told my wife before an ASB public meeting, even if we made the best possible decision, we were going to make someone upset

If they supposedly listented, but over the years but show a pattern of discarding what the appraisers said ,then it indicates an agenda on their.

If they listened but ignored what appraisers said over the years in letters, then it shows an agenda on their part. Or it might be more accurate to say that they chose to listen to the apparisrs who support a lower bar of education and protection against value presssure and have interest in seeing C and R upheld and enforced,, which is needed to attract and keep quality appraisers on the res mortgage lending end.
Why would quality, intelligent, and/or college-educated people choose to get a res license in the future, seeing dismal pay and opportunities on the mortgage end, the largest section of res work.?

t

 

[chad hampton]

I have repeatedly said that I agreed with adding *some* additional academic qualifications but that it doesn't take a degree to become a competent appraiser. I have also said I strongly disagree with using PAREA for experience. Neither of those are examples of me advocating for lowering the bar.

I'll pose the same question to you: do you really think the forum regulars who have gone their entire careers without a college education have been incapable of performing to specs? Because thats the only way your argument connects to any reasoning; that none of them should have been licensed in the first place without earning the college degree.

I never said going to college and getting a degree in history makes somebody a great appraiser. But times are also different now than 30+ years ago. I have two kids in high school, damn near everyone they know goes to some level of college. And the ones that don’t are very specific with the trades/jobs they’re getting into. So do you really want the people that are not going to college today and have no real goals or aspirations other than wanting to go work at a supermarket to be able to Have that easy of a path to a certification?

Make a military exemption if they want, if you serve active duty for five years, that satisfies the college requirement. I’d be all for that.

Taking two years worth of classes in a community college is a very cheap and easy way to satisfy an associate degree requirement.

I knew this change was coming 10 years ago when I heard representatives from these organizations start referring to professional appraisers as “labor”.

 

[Zoe]

By calling it incessant screeching, you just devalued and discredited the points I made about bundled fees and AMCs. According your opinion, your posts are neutral,, unbiased reality or reasoning and appraisers are screeching and not fact-based and all feelz. But your posts do show a point of view that favors stakeholders over lenders , and you often make disparaging comments about the appraisers, as you just did, below in bold, and that is what I was referring to. In your post 162 you wrote the below, it was not simply about USPAP and AQB.

Speaking of, virtually 100% of the criticisms people on this forum have about the material is limited to "I hate it" or "I hate it because of the money" without any specifics whatsoever. It's as if they all play Taylor Swift songs on constant rotationhile they're driving because that's about as deep as their reasoning seems to go.

I think George may be biased. Not sure on connections yet.

Are you on retainer George?

Tell me Sir George your biases in the environment at present Sir.

I say that with all due respect.

Okay, I will rephrase it.

What are your biases?

George, you are lucky you got out of law enforcement. Your biases shine Sir.

 

[J Grant]

Because they didn't go to college so therefore they were incapable of remembering anything from their Appraisal 101 course?

Perjaps.

I realize you were being funny and ironic (I assume that) but there is probably a measure of truth behind it. I highly doubt the completely clueless posts we get here from Paris about basic HBU, whether a lot is excess or surplus; those are not, I would bet $ on it from college-educated people. While folks can remember/memorize enough to pass a test and get licensed, applying that in practice and being able to reason and think their way through problems is another skill, and that is what college imparts to people.

Of course, some appraisers have the reasoning and thinking skills of those who did not go to college, but college or equivalent bar levels the playing field at the bottom rung—that is why so many professions want it.

 

[chad hampton]

Who is proposing that?

Over the years I have taken far more interest in the work of the ASB as compared to the work of the AQB. But, it does seem to me personally that something is very broken in the current process. And, to be clear my view is not based on any goal to increase or decrease the number of appraisers.

My view is driven by the posts we see here on a pretty regular basis. A prime example was a recent post where an appraiser was asking the AF community for help in explaining to a reviewer how he had developed his GLA adjustment rate. How does someone hold a CR and not know how to support his own GLA adjustment rate?

You make a good case for strengthening the education requirements and more hands-on real world work with a qualified supervisor. All things that are currently on the table to have less of, not more of.

In my earlier days, I wondered why through all the classes I took there was never a class that walked step-by-step through the process, from the inspection to completing a URAR line by line.

the closest thing I ever saw was in North Carolina, the appraisal field inspection was part of the class. They took everyone and they measured it and walked through it. I have no idea if that’s still part of the curriculum or not.