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Are properties really selling over market value?

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A drunk can not legally sign a contract and have it enforced. ! A sale contract is not legally binding if turns out signed under the influence or mental illness

In any event as you know I was using it as an example. An entire market can at times resemble a drunken run. WRT to the recen Game Stock rise and fall or rapid swings in stock or RE market.
Oh, so now the buyers aren't mentally competent (well informed/advised) and are incapable of making their own decisions and must therefore be protected from their own decisions?
 
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Without access to sales data, it is hard to generalize. Out here in the sparsely populated areas, we thankfully are not seeing market conditions reported elsewhere, although some appraisers rely on the drama reported on the local news as their market analysis. But, earlier this year, when it seemed we were joining the fray, I completed an assignment where about 25% of the 20 sales in the grid stood out (higher) compared to the others after all had been adjusted to the subject for differences, including market conditions. I dug deep and was able to determine that in most of those instances, the buyers were from out of town, so were not knowledgeable of local markets, and were probably relying on market knowledge from where they had come. But, more importantly, if 25% of the data suggests one level of value and the remainder suggests a lower value, I think the most probable price is supported by the latter. While the exuberance is tapering off here, despite essentially no inventory of active listings, my primary concern has been where that balance shifts. Your example, I think, is right on the edge. I don't find the fact that 40% are concluding values below the contract price useful by itself (for example, how much below is important...some lag is clearly expected from reliance on closed sales), but over time some of those have to close so appraised values should climbing at roughly the same rate as closed sale prices are rising.

On the other hand, if the methodology followed by those appraisers compares to what I observe, and am told by local appraisers, with 3 closed sales selected prior to inspecting the subject and done, then the results, compared to what they would be from well-completed analysis, probably resemble the pattern formed by a shotgun aimed at the wall. What are the thoughts on that from your perspective?
Interesting, Thx for the feedback. I am still looking at data, including looking at individual reports, reconciliation trends, etc. etc. There are some cases that pretty clearly fall into what you describe in the last sentence. There are also some cases of people just being very conservative for some reason (e.g. three similar comps adjust to 300, 310, 315 and final value is 305). Lots of data to look at, and often what one sees at the macro level is very different than what one sees looking appraiser-by-appraiser.
 
Oh, so now the buyers aren't mentally competent (well informed/advised) and are incapable of making their own decisions and must therefore be protected from their own decisions?

Oh yeah, you are definitely a liberal with authoritarian tendencies.
please stop putting words in my mouth. Surely you know I used the drunken as an analogy? How does doing an opinion of MV as a job translate into all these charges...

I am only a semi liberal btw...as you probably are finding out ! Why do folks stereotype liberals...well I probably do the same wrt conservatives to be fair.
 
Interesting, Thx for the feedback. I am still looking at data, including looking at individual reports, reconciliation trends, etc. etc. There are some cases that pretty clearly fall into what you describe in the last sentence. There are also some cases of people just being very conservative for some reason (e.g. three similar comps adjust to 300, 310, 315 and final value is 305). Lots of data to look at, and often what one sees at the macro level is very different than what one sees looking appraiser-by-appraiser.
I have no idea why in your example opined to 305k. Was it a refinance or a sale ? But if they had a valid reason, such as subject was inferior among the comps that is one thing. If no reason then idk, ?
 
We don't tell borrower what to pay .. .(we provide client with opinion of MV)

So if 40% of contracts come in lower, what is stopping those buyers from putting in their own cash to make up the difference to meet sale price ?
If 40% are coming in below contract price it’s not because of a lack of recent sales. data. In some areas of Fl it’s a mixed bag. its a mixed bag because Seasonal residents (sellers) are putting their 2nd homes on the market due to the boon of cheap money and fleeing northerners - the market is red hot right now - these sellers already have a primary home elsewhere

They’re cashing out - I’ve had 3 Realtors this Week tell me they’re advising sellers not to accept contracts without an appraisal contingency that if they property doesn’t appraise they will cough up the cash difference- they know This isn’t going to last. These contingency cash king clauses are necessary to secure the property against multiple offers.
 
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If 40% are coming in below contract price it’s not because of a lack of recent sales. data. In some areas of Fl it’s a mixed bag. its a mixed bag. Seasonal residents (sellers) are putting their 2nd homes on the market because the market is red hot right now - they already have a home elsewhere

They’re cashing out - I’ve had 3 Realtors this Week tell me they’re advising sellers not to accept contracts without an appraisal contingency that if they property doesn’t appraise they will cough up the cash difference- they know This is necessary to secure the property against multiple bids.
Seems like a number of sellers are starting to have the same idea, thus I see more listings lately (for some properties )
A slowdown of folks "fleeing " covid might be slowing soon too. Will see...stay tuned....
 
please stop putting words in my mouth. Surely you know I used the drunken as an analogy? How does doing an opinion of MV as a job translate into all these charges...

I am only a semi liberal btw...as you probably are finding out ! Why do folks stereotype liberals...well I probably do the same wrt conservatives to be fair.
You did more than draw the analogy; you directly related that analogy to the entire market.

A drunk can not legally sign a contract and have it enforced. ! A sale contract is not legally binding if turns out signed under the influence or mental illness
In any event as you know I was using it as an example. An entire market can at times resemble a drunken run. WRT to the recen Game Stock rise and fall or rapid swings in stock or RE market.
How about this: on a pricing trend, 2/30 sales which don't fit can be fairly characterized as being outliers when compared to the others. The other 28/30 cannot be characterized that way.
 
*SNIP*

On the other hand, if the methodology followed by those appraisers compares to what I observe, and am told by local appraisers, with 3 closed sales selected prior to inspecting the subject and done, then the results, compared to what they would be from well-completed analysis, probably resemble the pattern formed by a shotgun aimed at the wall. What are the thoughts on that from your perspective?
As always ... IT DEPENDS.... on factors like the appraiser's familiarity with the data/market area, the size of the market area, the number of available similar recent comparable sales to bracket every feature, etc. In your area it may seem like a "shotgun approach" but in a well-defined growing bedroom community area with tons of recent sales it may work just fine and allow for greater efficiency. Too many posters on this forum wind up comparing apples to oranges without taking the above listed factors (among many others) into account.
 
You did more than draw the analogy; you directly related that analogy to the entire market.

A drunk can not legally sign a contract and have it enforced. ! A sale contract is not legally binding if turns out signed under the influence or mental illness
In any event as you know I was using it as an example. An entire market can at times resemble a drunken run. WRT to the recen Game Stock rise and fall or rapid swings in stock or RE market.
How about this: on a pricing trend, 2/30 sales which don't fit can be fairly characterized as being outliers when compared to the others. The other 28/30 cannot be characterized that way.
the 28 sales are the dominant trend
 
If it helps your understanding of Florida , in my area ( Palm Beach County ) an alarming number of properties I see in my comp or subject research are showing on public records as delinquent on taxes. Property taxes have skyrocketed here due to rise in prices. Some people it seems either can 't or don't want to pay them. Not sure what it means but I have been seeing it more often than used to. Delinguent taxes and tax certificates. If you have realist public records search maybe start looking for it.

Homeowner insurance also very high due to storms ...imo the insurance companies take advantage but point is, a lot of buyers get swayed by a mortgage lender quote of low payments and get sticker shock when find out real costs of owning.

It even happened to me ,...these mortgage lenders can be very slick. When I bought my place 1.5 years ago mortgage lender good faith estimate a nice low monthly payment. I find out LATER when the loan was sold he did not escrow in the taxes or insurance. I ended up owing a double tax bill this year. I could afford it but what about those who cant?
History does tend to repeat itself! I saw a headline the other day talking about the "New Roaring Twenties," drawing parallels between now and the last pandemic in 1918. What followed was 10 years of fun and then 10 of misery, not the least of which included a very large number of folks losing all their real property because the tax man came and they couldn't pay. You may be seeing the canary in the coal mine!
 
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