Are we required to obtain permits?

[Delta85]

It's easy to go and get info regardless of consequences. A good appraiser uses some finesse in not making situations worse.

If a borrower built an addition or finished a basement without permits and then wants to refinance with a client who requires permit investigation they've made their own bed and can now lay in it.

I don't want to be a permit policeman and push back on that whenever possible but if the client insists, and the client and fee are good, then I'm gonna do my job without worrying about ruffling feathers.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Thanks Mike. It is South Heidelberg Township, Berks County.

The Uniform Construction Code (UCC) administration and
enforcement official for the Township is Tom Schultz of
Technicon Enterprises, Inc. II (TEI). Tom can be reached
at TEI by calling 610-286-1622, ext. 105 or at the Municipal
Building on the first Thursday of the month from 2-4
PM. Permit applications are available from the Township
Office, Monday through Friday, 8AM to 5PM. Please be
advised that a 15 business day application review period
is permitted by the Code and no work shall begin until a
permit has been issued. Inspections must be scheduled
with TEI a minimum of 24 hours in advance. A permit becomes
invalid unless authorized construction work begins
within 180 days after issuance or if the work is abandoned
for 180 days after its commencement.
http://www.co.berks.pa.us/Muni/SouthHeidelbergTwp/Documents/newsletterMAY2012final.pdf


http://www.co.berks.pa.us/Muni/SouthHeidelbergTwp/Documents/Building Permits Master.pdf

www.sheidtwp.org

 

[Mike Kennedy]

See Section VIII, pages 371-376
http://ecode360.com/documents/LO3004/source/366621.pdf

Section 801 ZONING PERMITS
Requirements
Land buildings and structures shall not be put to any use or have the use for which they are used changed or expanded nor shall any conversion which increases the number of dwelling units or additional activity accessory to the primary use occur without a permit therefor issued by the Zoning Officer unless otherwise provided for in this Ordinance No such permit shall be issued unless there is conformity with the provisions of this Ordinance except upon written order from the Zoning Hearing Board in the form of a variance or upon order from any court of competent jurisdiction

Section 802 CERTIFICATE OF USE AND OCCUPANCY
Requirements
It shall be unlawful to put to use any building structure or land or portion thereof for which a Zoning Permit is required or to change the use of any building structure or land or portion thereof until a Certificate ofUse and Occupancy has been issued by the municipality.

A Certificate of Use and Occupancy shall not be issued unless such building structure or land has been inspected by the Zoning Officer or other designated municipal official and he has determined that all provisions of this Zoning Ordinance have been complied with.

Section 806 CAUSES OF ACTION
In case any building structure landscaping or land is or is proposed to be erected constructed reconstructed altered, converted, maintained, or used in violation of this Ordinance the Governing Body or with the approval of the Governing Body an officer of the municipality or any aggrieved owner or tenant of real property who shows that his property or person will be substantially affected by the alleged violation in addition to other remedies may institute any appropriate action or proceeding to prevent restrain, correct, or abate such building, structure, landscaping, or land or to prevent in or about such premises any act, conduct business, or use constituting a violation. No such action may be maintained until such notice has been given.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Denis,

You should read FNMA and HUD guidelines on permits....basically they dont care.

Kindly post any specific FNMA or HUD guidelines which require appraising an illegal unfinished to finished basement conversion as Legal. Thanks in advance.

 

[CANative]

It's simply amazing how you can over-simplify AND over-complicate something at the same time. And then get a smug attitude about it.

 

[normando]

In certain locale, because of shortage of housing, the city turns a blind eye to inlaws and unpermitted additions. There's even rent control on inlaw units which they are not suppose to have. It's a gray area and the city only enforce their codes when there is a complaint. It's amazing when I go to some homes and the city required them to take out the in law and some are others are still there. Anybody can be an appraiser but it takes a certain personality and traits and creativity to get our job done. I think that takes at least 10 years of experience. I'm constantly learning.

 

[23Degrees]

When they modify the forms to remove the second part of statement 1 ("except for information that he or she became aware of during the research involved in performing this appraisal") and stop mandating the appraiser to declare the legal status as it relates to zoning compliance then we can stop being concerned when we show up and find a garage converted to a studio apartment, a 400 square foot addition of dubious origin, or maybe even in some cases a finished basement with a bathroom. Good or bad, this is how things are set up on the GSE forms despite the decades long culture of sweeping this stuff under the rug via easily defeatable boilerplate "not my problem" statements even when one can recognize the strong argument that it should not be our problem.

Until those changes are made I would not use the "but the agencies don't care about permits" argument in a buy back case or any private case where "as is" and "legal" were checked when those actions were mutually exclusive due to the presence of an undeniable, readily observable anomaly in an area where zoning code is hung up on permits or is tied to building code. Thankfully for some of us those areas are not all areas. Some cities do turn a blind eye today but that is a guaranteed loser defense if tomorrow they decide to slam someone using laws in place as of the effective date of the appraisal.

And based on Mike's posting it seems that the OP might have a permit hunt to schedule unless they are very sure that "as is" and "legal" with regard to zoning compliance were not mutually exclusive in this case.

 

[Don Clark]

Only been doing this 37 years and never pulled a permit. Suggest they contact a title department.

Been doing appraisals about the same length of time and never, ever pulle a permit either. No my chob.

 

[Don Clark]

See Section VIII, pages 371-376
[url]http://ecode360.com/documents/LO3004/source/366621.pdf[/URL]

Section 801 ZONING PERMITS
Requirements
Land buildings and structures shall not be put to any use or have the use for which they are used changed or expanded nor shall any conversion which increases the number of dwelling units or additional activity accessory to the primary use occur without a permit therefor issued by the Zoning Officer unless otherwise provided for in this Ordinance No such permit shall be issued unless there is conformity with the provisions of this Ordinance except upon written order from the Zoning Hearing Board in the form of a variance or upon order from any court of competent jurisdiction

Section 802 CERTIFICATE OF USE AND OCCUPANCY
Requirements
It shall be unlawful to put to use any building structure or land or portion thereof for which a Zoning Permit is required or to change the use of any building structure or land or portion thereof until a Certificate ofUse and Occupancy has been issued by the municipality.

A Certificate of Use and Occupancy shall not be issued unless such building structure or land has been inspected by the Zoning Officer or other designated municipal official and he has determined that all provisions of this Zoning Ordinance have been complied with.

Section 806 CAUSES OF ACTION
In case any building structure landscaping or land is or is proposed to be erected constructed reconstructed altered, converted, maintained, or used in violation of this Ordinance the Governing Body or with the approval of the Governing Body an officer of the municipality or any aggrieved owner or tenant of real property who shows that his property or person will be substantially affected by the alleged violation in addition to other remedies may institute any appropriate action or proceeding to prevent restrain, correct, or abate such building, structure, landscaping, or land or to prevent in or about such premises any act, conduct business, or use constituting a violation. No such action may be maintained until such notice has been given.

Mike,

With all due respect, where does it state that the appraiser is responsible for any of this? The certification states that the appraiser will not be responsible for matters of a legal nature. When you (an appraiser)start addressing legal issue you are really asking for trouble.

 

[CANative]

I don't know. It seems that MK keeps confusing the issue between an illegal act of a person and an illegal use of the land.