ASB Votes for Three Years Sales History

[Jim McGrath]

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in Florida. Here the sales price is calculated by the Clerk Of Courts based on the stamps on the deed, when the sale is recorded. It is possible, and it happens that the buyer can overstamp the deed to make it look like they paid more for the property than they actually did.

It is illegal to understamp the deed and not pay the correct fee, but it is not illegal to overstamp it, though the State says they try to discourage it. For this reason, what you see, may not be what they got. And to make finding the correct price even more difficult, some County property appraisers will release only minimal property information because the wealthy homeowners don't want their information made public.

Jim McGrath

I didn't write the ASB but I am very much in favor of the three year history. I report the last sale for my subject and all comparables whether is was last week or 196 or somewhere in between. I also includ several sentences in my addendum after I have describe each comparable in its own paragraph. I describe the listing history of each comparabe. For example: Comparable was on the market for three months by owner with an original asking price of $95,000 reduced to a final asking price of $90,000. Property was then listed with a realtor for 2 months with an original asking price of $89,900. After listing expired, property was for sale by owner with an original and final asking price of $65,000. Etc, etc, etc. Now the reader of the report knows why the home was on the market for a year! Also if the subject and most of the comparables all sold 5-6 years ago for $50,000 and now with only normal maintenance (no additions or physical changes) sells in the $60,000 range, that also provides some data to a reader. So I am very glad to see the new guideline. I do admit I am fortunate in AZ since we have had affidavit of values signed by both the buyer and seller filed with the transfer of ownership deed since 1968. This affidavit states the sales price, if there is any personal property involved, etc.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Frank,

All that wording???? You probably confused the hell out of them. Think more along the lines of the state plumbers board the next time when you're composing. You'll have greater success. :lol: :lol:

All you had to tell the ASB guys was.....Think of every residential appraisal as a refi with no prior sales history.........They may understand that scenario, if they're appraisers, well maybe.

Go to it appraiser. I, the lender, need a value and you have no beginning point. Let's see how good you are. Damn, I guess I better check some listings along with some sales, if I don't have a good beginning point, huh?????

Hell, we do it everyday without the wisdom of a prior sale, listing, agreement, whatever....and we did it long before USPAP and prospered.

Ben

 

[David C. Johnson]

<span style='color:darkblue'>Thanks, Frank.

As I mentioned, I got an email off with the assistance of your post in the "Improving the Profession / Political Action" Forum.

Regards,

dcj</span>

 

[jtrotta]

Ben

I guess it's just another Ho-Hum day in paradise :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lets, see here if I go back three years in time and tell you the house Sold for $90K and here we are in a fast track market and it recently SOld for $120K what good is that info :?: And don't anyone here tell me somethin stupid.

Flips, were created by devious people - you think you invent a way to stop it, but the criminal mind looks for the crack in the ointment. And it will happen again, but they will become more creative. "Flips" do not take place over long periods of time, they are generated for short periods of time to capitalize on the speed of the transaction's. If your any kind of an appraiser, when you go thru the records, you will know - if you can't see it, get out of this business NOW, cause you don't belong here.
And the devious people include; ATTORNEYS - come on folks the DEALS don't close without a LAWYER; the guys that put this crap together are MOSTLY COLLEGE GRADUATES, that are pissed cause they can't work in the field they went ta school for and have an ENORMUS DEBT - because someone told them they needed an education. They just earned another DEGREE - in stupidity.

Why does everyone come up (with what they think is a solution) after most of the damage has been done :?: :?:

The scenerio that someone described about the FHA or VA deal - now thats not flipping, but it could be calleed "Fleecing" baaaa, baaaa someone mention Black Sheep here :?: :?:

Now my big question; if you research the Sales Data for three years prior, don't you also need to know the balance of the circumstances as to why those sales Sold for that kinda money :?: Most of the past conditions are supported by; Interest Rates at that time :?: What was Supply & Demand like at that particualr period :?: What were the area and Market Trends for each of the years prior to the current year in which your doing this appraisal :?: What were the influences that created the "Market Growth" throught the past three year period :?:

Now if anyone thinks they can do this in (2 minutes-someone said) then I know Aliens have taken over the planet 8O Now, to complete an appraisal of this magnatude, I see costs excellerating to ohhhh-$600 to $1,000 per job; because under the balance of USPAP requirements we cannot skip over anything and we need to keep ALLLLLL of our work product available for our PEERS and For "COURT".

I figure it's about time, I only want to do 2-3 jobs a week anyway and thats about all you could do under these circumstances.

Happy Days are here again, thank God, Moses and the ASB (and Ben-you do know what ASB stands for- Right :lol: :lol: :lol: )

8)

 

[Bemis Pownall]

1 year
2 year
5 year
I think we should report all the previous sales....
any thing else your not doing your job....

JMHO

comon take the time and find the last sale..it could be a challenge

 

[Randy Beigh]

These rules come about because of incompetent or fraudulent lenders, realtors, buyers, and appraisers. If we all did what we were supposed to do, the rules would never come into play.

Having lived in a community where rampant fraud took place for about 4 years, I can safely say that fraudulent appraisers took part. And some of the ability to get with it was in not reporting the sales and listing history.

One year or 3 years is not relevant. What is relevant is deception either through incompetence or fraud. The 3 year history has always been part of commercial and I don't see a problem in making it part of residential.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Bemis and Randy,

OK so we report all the prior sales of the subject for three years to make 2003 USPAP happy. I really don't have a problem with that. It's silly but doable. I just have to ask the borrower/owner if they've been there for 3 years instead of 1 when I inspect the property. No big deal. Or maybe we should go back to the old FHA way of not completing an appraisal until you have the most recent deed with a legal description in your possession-the old FHA panel guys will remember that.

Now just what does the underwriter do when they see that subject prior sale info??? Most probably don't know the box exists on the residential appraisal forms. Does it set off a secret underwriter alarm????? Got me.

Will it stop fraud and flips. Nope. I've never had one underwriter call and question a prior sale of the subject. So it really is a silly box on the URAR.

Once again, value is derived from the sales data not the subject. "Doing our job" would be a 2003 USPAP requirement for sales history on the comparables which FNMA/FHLMC already have wisely placed on their forms.

Ben

 

[Randy Beigh]

Ben

"Will it stop fraud and flips. Nope. "

Since the appraiser's job never was to stop frauds and flips, that would be reasonable. All an appraiser can do is report and many were failing to do so.

"I've never had one underwriter call and question a prior sale of the subject."

Like I said, we have been through this in this community. My questions to you is, what if there were 3 or 4 transactions with sales prices all over the place? Isn't this relevant, even if they extend over 12 months? Why not report them? In our case, the crooked mortgage broker was doing some of the buying and selling, wouldn't this information be relevant?

If you knew this stuff was going on, you have an obligation to report it, no matter the time factor. The appraiser that was doing these transactions recently had his license revoked and rightfully so.

 

[airphoto]

The bottom line is: Where's the title company in this? They'll have all the information, it's what they do.

 

[Larry Lyke]

My larger question is what is the UW going to do with this information.

Here's my example:

Present appraisal is for $200,000

House sold for $180,000 in 2001

House sold for $165,000 in 2000

House sold for $130,000 in 1999

Can the UW say the house has sold too many times in the past?

Can the UW ask questions as to why the house sold so many times?

There must be something wrong here. Nobody wants to live here more than one year at a time.

Did each owner do something to improve the house to make it worth more each time it was sold?

SOMEHOW, I THINK THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS ARE VESTED WITH THE PROPERTY PER SE AND CANNOT BE NITPICKED BY AN UNDERWRITER as intellectual whimsy -- Only by a reviewer.