Asbestos Tile Shingles

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Working on one with asbestos tile shingles. Some are missing, looks like some are cracked. I'm told by a home inspector that has also taken classes for doing environmental inspections that most people just put a new roof over top of the asbestos. I do know that legal removal of these would be very expensive!

Is this a legal solution? What do I suggest on this one. So far, it's for the owner to decide whether to sell or stay.

 

[bradellis]

Pam,

Very interesting indeed, but some questions and observations:

1. How do you know the roof shingles contain asbestos? I ask specifically for 2 reasons- a) no one can know if a material contains asbestos without a microscopic analysis, and b) as I recall asbestos was outlawed around 1976-1980 (just recollection- would have to look it up- or perhaps some enterprising soul with more time could do this) so the end of useful life for a typical 230# shingle roof is about right, BUT that would mean that this roof would have been one of the last to contain that material- if it is present.

2. Putting a roof over it may be possible, but that gets into other factors- like how many courses of shingles are already on it and will the structure handle a second or third course?

3. If a tear off is required, AND if the material does indeed contain asbestos, it is a good bet that the state would have environmental laws covering removal and disposal. It can get very expensive.

4. If the "asbestos" was identified by the home inspector who took an environmental course, then I'd be questioning how he/she determined this. If it is a guess, I suggest they go back to school.

Over the years, I have researched roofing- primarily to determine the best descriptive word for various shingle types. The discussion revolved around asphalt vs. composition- so I asked the national sales manager for a roofing manufacturer who laughed, saying he'd been asked this many times.

He turned me around. Said all asphalt shingles are composition and they used a determinant of "organic vs. inorganic". Organic being paper backed; inorganic being fiberglass backed. Years ago makers thought fiberglass would be fire retardent, but they found the fiberglass just melted in a fire and provided no real protection.

They are all composition shingles and they all contain asphalt. But I never heard of them containing asbestos. Sure, I have seen asbestos shingles used over siding, but not on a roof- NOT that this is in anyway impossible.

Anyway, I suggest you check this out further before relying upon statements from an inspector or anyone else.

Good luck,

Brad Ellis, IFA, RAA

 

[Ross (CO)]

Pamela, is this tile material the exterior siding, or the roofing ? I'll guess it's the siding. Occasionally I see side shingles that are this stuff, and they are thin, hard, flat shingles, about 8 to 10" wide, most with a straight or slightly wavey lower edge. They do not curl over time. If they crack it is almost like a pane of glass and an entire "chunk" of the tile falls off. They are usually painted over, many times through the years, and generally I see them on houses built in the late 1950's to early 60's. I have been told they can be called Johns-Manville shingles of simply JM shingles. For the most part they are "harmless" as they are an exterior material, and by being painted remain "harmless", and I simply refer to them as JM.....but never have I called for any removal, nor been asked to make any further addendum description or explanation. Have done perhaps 1/2 dozen reports with these on house, and one sees their presence either visually, and by age of house, and by select location of neighborhood where and when they were the "stuff to use" at time of construction.

 

[Daniel Williams]

Pamela (and Brad)

Help me out....you said Asbestos TILE shingle. Is it a cement or ceramic style shingle whith asbestos as part of the make-up?

Here are three links to some info you may find interesting....one is about a house near Jacksonville Fl. I rember watching the "this old house" show when they were abating a home in CA......(it is one of the links)


http://www.bcstandard.com/News/2001/0221/F...nt_Page/01.html
http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/puh/enh/asbesto...os/shingles.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/thisoldhouse/knowh...t/asbestos.html

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Wish I could figure out how to put the picture on here. :?

It's the roof and they are flat square tiles set in diamond pattern. The house was built in 1940 and these are original.

Thank you all for you answers. I think this could be left as is and a new roof put on top of them if you can find the right roofer that would know how to secure the new roof through these hard tiles.

Daniel, thanks for the articles! At least I have someone local I can call now and the price for removing the shingle siding on that old house was a lot less than I though it would be.

I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

1. How do you know the roof shingles contain asbestos? I ask specifically for 2 reasons- a) no one can know if a material contains asbestos without a microscopic analysis, and b) as I recall asbestos was outlawed around 1976-1980 (just recollection- would have to look it up- or perhaps some enterprising soul with more time could do this) so the end of useful life for a typical 230# shingle roof is about right, BUT that would mean that this roof would have been one of the last to contain that material- if it is present.

..........

They are all composition shingles and they all contain asphalt. But I never heard of them containing asbestos. Sure, I have seen asbestos shingles used over siding, but not on a roof- NOT that this is in anyway impossible.

Brad,

Here in Florida, asbestos shingles were commonly used as roofing maeterial in the 20's through the early 50's. Although I've never done a microscopic analysis or commissioned one, we've always called them Asbestos Shingles.

This material is very similar to the Asbestos Siding used during the same era; at least here in the Sunshine State..

Pam,

I've not seen other roofing material applied over asbestos shingles. In most cases, the underlay is bad and must be replaced. The shingles protect the underlay. New composition shingles over the existing roof would not be the best idea. Disposition of the asbestos shingles is the roofers problem.

 

[wyecoyote]

Pam,

For my 0.02 cents, I agree with bradellis on this one. Do you really know that these are asbestos tiles. During the same time period as you described they were using other tiles that look just like asbestos tiles. Only a microspic (SP) examination would truly find out if they are or not.

1. If they are and a new roof is put over will the "nails" crack the asbestos? And cause enviromental concerns at a later date? Only an enviromental study would know for sure.

2. If not asbestos but one of the "Knock" offs then the cost to remove and reshingle is considerably less.

3. Can the roof structure support a new roof? That is a structural engineers call.

I would state what is there and call for an enviromental check on the roofing material. I know Francois K. Gregoire, may be correct and if it is common in that area and time frame thay may be, but, are you and/or the Home Inspector qualified for this. I take it this is a purchase. If you don't note this and require the proper inspections. Should the event that the buyers become sick and realize that it is the asbestos shingles and you did not note it and call for the proper inspections, then who would be responsible in a lawsuit.

Just my 0.02 cents for what it matters.

Ryan

 

[Daniel Williams]

Do they look like this? This is a "slate" style asbestos shingle roof.

 

[Rick Hess]

Oh boy, I know I'm gonna catch 9 kinds of he** for this, but here goes anyway. If indeed your tiles are asbestos, you need to note it, and I sure would call for an inspection by trained personnel.

If the "asbestos" is friable ( broken and capable of releasing fibers into the air), then removal is going to be very costly.
If not friable, then if I were the homeowner, I'd take em off myself, then have it reroofed. I've worked around asbestos abatement, and know how nit picky it is to remove, not to mention abominably expensive. Note: I am not advocating suggesting to the homeowner take them off him/herself, just what I would do in his shoes.

Applying a new roof over the tiles, assuming asbestos, would most likely damage the tiles, rendering them friable, thus necessitating removal of the new roof and then proper abatement of the original tiles.

Sounds like the homeowner is in a no win situation here. It's gonna cost him/her a bundle either up front to replace it, or later when forced to do the same to make the sale.

Whatever the eventual solution, document, document, document and by all means CYOA.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Brick

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

Daniel,

That's them! Thanks!

This if for the homeowner as client to decide whether to sell or not. I'm stating that an environmental professional familiar with asbestos roofing needs to inspect and that their conclusions may impact the Appraisers opinion of the estimated market value.