Assumptions and estimates for when the ANSI measuring standard becomes the rule?

[TruJa]

I'm not a super experienced appraiser, but in my trainee days there was a strong emphasis from the state I was certified in not to appraise a house for say $324,563 because it would misleadingly imply too much precision. When it comes to measuring a house, are you going to utilize new boilerplate in your templates to describe your methodology and level of precision such as:

Assumptions made when measuring to the interior (no we can't check the thickness of every wall).
Estimates utilized when there are obstructions (dang bush is in the way).
Walls that appear to visually be at right angles are assumed to be.
Measurements may vary based upon minor differences in the exterior (what part of the lap siding do you measure to (and from), what about that veneer that extends 3' up the wall, what about the natural stone veneer or log siding which varies 3-4"?)
Final sketches will be reconciled (not sure how to approach this one, but if I round nearly 1/2" in the course of a large house with 50+ measurements, that could be a big, big difference by the time I get to the end, would ideally take some larger measurements, but that still involves reconciling)

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

it is not misleading to measure a house to precision or to a use a survey for exact lot size or to utilized builder's blueprints measured to the 1/8 of an inch. The adjustments for living area will be the same as they always were no matter how you measure. Appraisers are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I have been using ANSI standards for many years and it has not changed my appraisal opinions $1.

 

[TruJa]

it is not misleading to measure a house to precision or to a use a survey for exact lot size or to utilized builder's blueprints measured to the 1/8 of an inch. The adjustments for living area will be the same as they always were no matter how you measure. Appraisers are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I have been using ANSI standards for many years and it has not changed my appraisal opinions $1.

This isn't really about value... but if I say I use ANSI standards in my report, I am obligated to actually use them. I believe ANSI standards require me to disclose when I can't be that precise due to ______ (insert why I couldn't measure to within 1" or 0.1' here). If you use plans that is fine, but I believe ANSI specifically requires you to disclose this. I plan on disclosing what assumptions or estimates I routinely make and why. I hope I can utilize some boilerplate, and leave narrative explanations to those few times where it is difficult to measure (like a house with a cliff on 2 sides, in the snow with odd angles and lots of obstructions).

 

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

This isn't really about value... but if I say I use ANSI standards in my report, I am obligated to actually use them. I believe ANSI standards require me to disclose when I can't be that precise due to ______ (insert why I couldn't measure to within 1" or 0.1' here). If you use plans that is fine, but I believe ANSI specifically requires you to disclose this. I plan on disclosing what assumptions or estimates I routinely make and why. I hope I can utilize some boilerplate, and leave narrative explanations to those few times where it is difficult to measure (like a house with a cliff on 2 sides, in the snow with odd angles and lots of obstructions).

If you have miter gauge odd angles are not difficult. If you use a Disto or other laser device, measuring to the 1/10 a foot is no problem. If you use a mobile sketching device, you can sketch all the walls and angles and close the sketch. You can figure wall thickness with two measurements with a Disto. You can open the front door, measure from the exterior wall to the first target wall, then measure from the interior wall to the target wall to get wall thickness. Cliffs? I don't think there are that many assignments hanging over cliffs. If so, I would figure the wall thickness and measure the interior walls.

Sounds like a Disto could solve several measuring problems and so could a mobile sketching device.

 

[TruJa]

If you have miter gauge odd angles are not difficult. If you use a Disto or other laser device, measuring to the 1/10 a foot is no problem. If you use a mobile sketching device, you can sketch all the walls and angles and close the sketch. You can figure wall thickness with two measurements with a Disto. You can open the front door, measure from the exterior wall to the first target wall, then measure from the interior wall to the target wall to get wall thickness. Cliffs? I don't think there are that many assignments hanging over cliffs. If so, I would figure the wall thickness and measure the interior wa

If you have miter gauge odd angles are not difficult. If you use a Disto or other laser device, measuring to the 1/10 a foot is no problem. If you use a mobile sketching device, you can sketch all the walls and angles and close the sketch. You can figure wall thickness with two measurements with a Disto. You can open the front door, measure from the exterior wall to the first target wall, then measure from the interior wall to the target wall to get wall thickness. Cliffs? I don't think there are that many assignments hanging over cliffs. If so, I would figure the wall thickness and measure the interior walls.

Sounds like a Disto could solve several measuring problems and so could a mobile sketching device.

I get your general point, but I think we are talking about different issues. I'm saying I'm not as precise as 0.1' implies, and I'm going to disclose how and why in every single report. I'm also saying you aren't as precise as 0.1' implies but it appears you either deny that or ignore that. I think we would end up very close on the same houses (except that if you use a miter gauge, I will be much, much more accurate than you using triangulation). ANSI has reporting requirements in addition to measuring requirements. That is the crux of what I am talking about.... the reporting requirements. (PS - I use laser and mobile sketching, and started out measuring to the nearest 1")

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

measuring to the 1/10 a foot is no problem.

You can measure to a 1/1,000th of an inch but it won't improve the accuracy...

if you use a miter gauge, I will be much, much more accurate than you using triangulation)

Bingo, we have a winner. If you stand off to get around a shrub or rose bushes you will be off more than a 1/10th of a foot...except by shear serendipity. Well, I suppose you could carry a couple of very straight 2"x4"s to lay against the opposing ends...oops, another problem. Targeting...hunkering down on your knees to get the laser exactly level with the other board...hopefully the ground is level and you aren't on a slope...darn. Ultimately instead of merely measuring the house, you are writing an explanation of how you measured the house and reported it ANSI compliant. I suspect a lot of claims about how they use ANSI would find a number of such claims are suspect in that the measurements are not explained ANSI style. For our next level of precision, we will set up our plane table and alidade and use an Invar steel surveyor's tape, tension handle and do it right, eh? You know, back in the office make a temperature compensation chart to adjust the measurements?

 

[Mejappz]

You can measure to a 1/1,000th of an inch but it won't improve the accuracy...


Bingo, we have a winner. If you stand off to get around a shrub or rose bushes you will be off more than a 1/10th of a foot...except by shear serendipity. Well, I suppose you could carry a couple of very straight 2"x4"s to lay against the opposing ends...oops, another problem. Targeting...hunkering down on your knees to get the laser exactly level with the other board...hopefully the ground is level and you aren't on a slope...darn. Ultimately instead of merely measuring the house, you are writing an explanation of how you measured the house and reported it ANSI compliant. I suspect a lot of claims about how they use ANSI would find a number of such claims are suspect in that the measurements are not explained ANSI style. For our next level of precision, we will set up our plane table and alidade and use an Invar steel surveyor's tape, tension handle and do it right, eh? You know, back in the office make a temperature compensation chart to adjust the measurements?
View attachment 58583

Don't give these lunatics any more advice.

 

[TruJa]

Don't give these lunatics any more advice.

....well, I guess I can't help it that I'm luny. I can however, try to make my reports at least as accurate as my measurements.

 

[Mejappz]

....well, I guess I can't help it that I'm luny. I can however, try to make my reports at least as accurate as my measurements.

The lunatics are Fannie, not you

 

[sputnam]

The $324,563 is the opinion of value. A measurement, whether expressed to the nearest foot or to the nearest 1/10 of a foot, is an expression of a physical fact. Kind of not the same thing at all.