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Bifurcated Appraisal Inspections/new Ny Legislation?

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I don't consider DWs participation on this forum to be a function of his job or as being representative of the official company policy. He prolly has to temper his remarks so as to not violate the terms of his employment but it seems to me that if he was doing the same thing Doctor Manahattan used to do here that his line would be way different.

He's disclosed his employment. That disclosure alone should be sufficient to provide context for his comments; people can form their own opinions on his credibility from there. I don't see any reason for anyone to think he's being sneaky or underhanded.

I also think it's a mistake to assume he's even at liberty to discuss fees by amount on an internet forum, whether public or private. Why would any company in any facet of the appraisal business allow their employees to do that on the internet?

The alternative to DW participating - even if on the less than full disclosure mode - is him leaving the forum and taking with him the info that he has been contributing to our understanding of that side of the business. Who else has ever provided as much insight into the workings of the AMC business as Danny? The same for TimD before he left - he was a conduit to some of the workings at the GSEs, now lost to us all for good because people can't compartmentalize between the business vs the profession.

If you don't want to deal with the way Danny posts then just put him on ignore.

Such BS....
He doesn't provide SL fees....
Because SL has no fees....
Haha....

BTW....
What have I posted that makes you think I don't wish to deal with DW's posts????
I enjoy reading his posts....
I just disagree with some of them....
Just as I do what you post....
 
A)
"Besides, it does not matter what I think it should be. It is the market (the appraisers in the market) that will dictate the fees."

B)
"...I have told Fannie that in order for the 1004P tests to have any degree of success there will have to be fair compensation (to the appraiser) for the work involved."

DW....

If you truly believe A to be correct....

Then....

Then why did you feel the need to share B with Fannie and the AF?

I obviously have my opinion....
Because all the uproar over some of the “advertised” and/or “alleged” rates are a huge distraction causing a bunch of emotional turmoil, and that is causing some to lose focus on the big picture and the real issues.

Clients are tired of dining at the same place and getting the same food all the time. They have decided that they don’t want steak for every meal. That want to see what happens if they get the meatloaf instead, or a burger, or even skipping a meal.

But, appraisers are placing too much focus on fantasy fees, and not enough focus on the threat to their profession that exists from refusing to listen to what clients want. Appraisers should just charge professional rates. Period.

And they should embrace the SOW rule and drop the 1004 protectionism.

Every day we order as many or more BPOs as appraisals? Sad, but true. That work is work that should be going to appraisers, but it is going to agents because when lenders wanted something less than the 1004, appraisers as a group, said “NO!” So, the lenders sought another solution. The same will happen with the 1004P/hybrids. If appraisers refuse, lenders will simply find another solution.

We have already seen it in NY. They passed a new law basically outlawing AMC ordering of “hybrids.” The reaction of the lenders was swift - that work that was going to appraisers is now going to non-appraisers (whom the appraiser board has no regulatory authority over). Some NY appraisers are mysteriously celebrating that as a win.

The long term threat is VERY real, and appraisers need to quit bickering before the users just decide that dealing with appraisers just isn’t worth the hassle.
 
If someone is doing an opinion of value we should all want that someone to be an appraiser, regardless of the SOW the users think is sufficient.

Performing a Drive-By - an appraiser can do it faster and better
Performing a Desktop - an appraiser can probably do it faster and better
Running an AVM - an appraiser can probably do it better
Performing an AVM-assisted appraisal - same

I guarantee you all that if we won't do it these lenders will find someone else who will
 
Because all the uproar over some of the “advertised” and/or “alleged” rates are a huge distraction causing a bunch of emotional turmoil, and that is causing some to lose focus on the big picture and the real issues.

Clients are tired of dining at the same place and getting the same food all the time. They have decided that they don’t want steak for every meal. That want to see what happens if they get the meatloaf instead, or a burger, or even skipping a meal.

But, appraisers are placing too much focus on fantasy fees, and not enough focus on the threat to their profession that exists from refusing to listen to what clients want. Appraisers should just charge professional rates. Period.

And they should embrace the SOW rule and drop the 1004 protectionism.

Every day we order as many or more BPOs as appraisals? Sad, but true. That work is work that should be going to appraisers, but it is going to agents because when lenders wanted something less than the 1004, appraisers as a group, said “NO!” So, the lenders sought another solution. The same will happen with the 1004P/hybrids. If appraisers refuse, lenders will simply find another solution.

We have already seen it in NY. They passed a new law basically outlawing AMC ordering of “hybrids.” The reaction of the lenders was swift - that work that was going to appraisers is now going to non-appraisers (whom the appraiser board has no regulatory authority over). Some NY appraisers are mysteriously celebrating that as a win.

The long term threat is VERY real, and appraisers need to quit bickering before the users just decide that dealing with appraisers just isn’t worth the hassle.

This was a long post to not answer my question....:)

Why did you feel the need to warn/advise/counsel/etc. Fannie regarding fees if the market sets fees?

What reason(s) did you think Fannie would care about the fees? :)
 
If someone is doing an opinion of value we should all want that someone to be an appraiser, regardless of the SOW the users think is sufficient.
So far in my state the evaluators are winning. Despite attempts to get the ledge to require evals using "market value" be performed by registered appraisers, it didn't happen. The trainee and registered classifications have been split but no movement to make evaluators meet any licensing or minimum standards.
 
This was a long post to not answer my question....:)

Why did you feel the need to warn/advise/counsel/etc. Fannie regarding fees if the market sets fees?

What reason(s) did you think Fannie would care about the fees? :)
Their program basically cannot yield the results they want unless appraisers do the do on the research and analysis and report writing end of these assignments. This precludes any realistic expectations for a 2-hr appraisal assignment. Leastwise, it can't happen on a 1004-style format.

And if you WERE working on the management staff of an AMC and facing opposition from the fee appraisers over the fee it would be to your company's advantage to establish a reasonable expectation with Fannie over what fees it will take in order to produce the kinds of results they're looking for.
 
I'm not calling it cowardly for AMCs not to set their own fees....
I'm calling it cowardly for DW to continually and voluntarily participate in discussions regarding fees as a representative of SL....
To provide SL's side of the issue and yet dance around answering direct questions about SL....
With a most disingenuous mantra....

No one else need agree with my position....

who said he had to tell you anything let alone what appraisers are charging them for fees, especially when he has said the same thing every time he posts on the subject of fees - the appraisers set them, not danny. i think it's pretty cowardly, and petty, to ask questions you know the answer to already and then try to make him look bad because he answered it yet again.

A)
"Besides, it does not matter what I think it should be. It is the market (the appraisers in the market) that will dictate the fees."

B)
"...I have told Fannie that in order for the 1004P tests to have any degree of success there will have to be fair compensation (to the appraiser) for the work involved."

DW....

If you truly believe A to be correct....

Then....

Then why did you feel the need to share B with Fannie and the AF?

I obviously have my opinion....

because despite what your mind can't conceive danny actually does care about appraisers. some are just too blind by their own uninformed opinions to see it.
 
Because all the uproar over some of the “advertised” and/or “alleged” rates are a huge distraction causing a bunch of emotional turmoil, and that is causing some to lose focus on the big picture and the real issues.

Clients are tired of dining at the same place and getting the same food all the time. They have decided that they don’t want steak for every meal. That want to see what happens if they get the meatloaf instead, or a burger, or even skipping a meal.

But, appraisers are placing too much focus on fantasy fees, and not enough focus on the threat to their profession that exists from refusing to listen to what clients want. Appraisers should just charge professional rates. Period.

And they should embrace the SOW rule and drop the 1004 protectionism.

Every day we order as many or more BPOs as appraisals? Sad, but true. That work is work that should be going to appraisers, but it is going to agents because when lenders wanted something less than the 1004, appraisers as a group, said “NO!” So, the lenders sought another solution. The same will happen with the 1004P/hybrids. If appraisers refuse, lenders will simply find another solution.

We have already seen it in NY. They passed a new law basically outlawing AMC ordering of “hybrids.” The reaction of the lenders was swift - that work that was going to appraisers is now going to non-appraisers (whom the appraiser board has no regulatory authority over). Some NY appraisers are mysteriously celebrating that as a win.

The long term threat is VERY real, and appraisers need to quit bickering before the users just decide that dealing with appraisers just isn’t worth the hassle.

I don''t know the answer, but if lenders Or AMC's intended to pay "professional rates", this would not be an issue- fannie is driving the waiver and hybrid bus, though AMC;s position themselves to make $ no matter what valuation product is ordered.

If appraisers can not earn "professional rates" from the alternate products, it would pay for a number of them to stop maintaining an appraisal license and instead do inspections or evaluations under a RE license (or whatever criteria is accepted )

It is one thing to say appraisers should charge professional rates, but since the rationale for hybrids is "cost savings" , that indicates a lower rate paid- unless a lower rate is paid to the appraiser, how then, is the cost savings achieved? And despite the possibility direct lenders would pay a better rate for a hybrid, it would still be lower, or why would they even order one? Though appraisals are still in contract continuances and some owners or RE agents may object to results with a non appraiser inspecting, . The reason non appraisers are being engaged for the inspections is because they are more numerous and thus cheaper., and can deliver faster is that is all they do. Though what great benefit saving a day in TT is questionable.

It will still leave lenders with the same problem- even with faster closing speed or appraisal waivers or cheaper valuations, there will stil be a limited and finite number of people any given time who will buy a property or borrower against their home. Consumers are not going to be:, "Wow ! I can save $ 50 on an appraisal and close sooner, so 'll turn my life upside down and buy a house"

Which means when lenders reach equivalent speed, they will end up right where they are now, offering similar rates and terms. Only difference is those more traditional lenders who actually use due diligence or foster relationships with their customers rather than being an anonymous internet click..

Lenders face a problem, the only way they can increase volume , except for periods of short term interest rate drops, is if they offer exotic and high risk /low down $ loans, which is already starting to happen.
 
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If someone is doing an opinion of value we should all want that someone to be an appraiser, regardless of the SOW the users think is sufficient.

Performing a Drive-By - an appraiser can do it faster and better
Performing a Desktop - an appraiser can probably do it faster and better
Running an AVM - an appraiser can probably do it better
Performing an AVM-assisted appraisal - same

I guarantee you all that if we won't do it these lenders will find someone else who will

I agree with you. But I would not sign my name to a black box AVM. Why should I? I’ve been running these models before Fannie Mae knew they even existed. What Fannie should do is give us access to our own data. If it were about better and quicker valuations, they would.
 
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