Bifurcated Appraisal Inspections/new Ny Legislation?

[Evincere]

Cowardly....

Well. We’ve seen definitive price sheets stating what an AMC charges a Lender for various products. And it’s a set fee with a ceiling - unless for a very atypical property it cannot be othwise. And that product after the AMCs costs are figured in - then has to be sold to an Appraiser for another fee.

Otherwise, the AMC cannot stay in business. There’s no way any AMC is going to pay the Appraiser the same fee it charges the lender. Doctors for example, know what they must charge to cover their overhead. That’s just business 101.

ALL AMCs know exactly how much (high, low, they are - - can - will be selling their product to the Appraiser -

Cowardly indeed

 

[TRESinc]

ALL AMCs know exactly how much (high, low, they are - - can - will be selling their product to the Appraiser -

it must be terrible letting your clients tell you how much you are worth. hopefully one day you will see the error of your ways.

I wonder when Fannie will update their selling guide....

B4-1.1-03: Appraiser Selection Criteria (01/31/2017)

Appraiser License and Certification
Fannie Mae requires a lender (or its authorized agent) to use appraisers or supervisory appraisers that are state-licensed or state-certified (in accordance with the provisions of Title XI of the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act of 1989 and all applicable state laws). The lender (or its authorized agent) must document that the appraisers it uses are licensed or certified as appropriate under the applicable state law. The lender must ensure that the state license or state certification is active as of the effective date of the appraisal report. The appraiser must note his or her license or certification number on the individual appraisal report forms, in compliance with the Uniform Appraisal Dataset Specification, Appendix D: Field-Specific Standardization Requirements.

Fannie Mae’s appraisal report forms identify the appraiser as the individual who

• personally inspected the property being appraised,
• inspected the exterior of the comparables,
• performed the analysis, and
• prepared and signed the appraisal report as the appraiser.

This does not preclude appraisers from relying on individuals who are not state-licensed or state-certified to provide significant professional assistance, such as an appraiser trainee or an employee of the appraiser doing market data research or data verification in the development of the appraisal. Under some state laws, a lender’s use of an unlicensed or uncertified appraiser that is working as an employee or sub-contractor of a licensed or certified appraiser will satisfy the state’s licensing and certification requirement, as long as the appraisal report is signed by a state-licensed or state-certified supervisory or review appraiser. The state-licensed or state-certified appraiser that signs the appraisal report must acknowledge in the report the extent of the professional assistance provided by others and the specific tasks performed by each individual, and must certify that each named individual is qualified to perform the tasks.

https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/selling/b4/1.1/03.html

you do realize that the 1004P is just in a testing phase for FNMA, right? why would they update the selling guide for something that may not come to fruition?

 

[glenn walker]

Well. We’ve seen definitive price sheets stating what an AMC charges a Lender for various products. And it’s a set fee with a ceiling - unless for a very atypical property it cannot be othwise. And that product after the AMCs costs are figured in - then has to be sold to an Appraiser for another fee.

Otherwise, the AMC cannot stay in business. There’s no way any AMC is going to pay the Appraiser the same fee it charges the lender. Doctors for example, know what they must charge to cover their overhead. That’s just business 101.

ALL AMCs know exactly how much (high, low, they are - - can - will be selling their product to the Appraiser -

Cowardly indeed

DWiley- Is not being cowardly he works for a company and cannot just disclose every detail on an- open forum. I worked for different lenders where -we had to sign non-disclosure agreements and discussing fee's was not allowed. Frankly I think he is very brave to even be on this site because it certainly does not help him and he has been very open and honest as he can about the AMC situation.

The problem is AMC's are like discussing politics and 1004-P and Hybrids are a product that most appraisers on the forum say they won't take at any fee- BUT whats funny is the same appraisers keep saying this is not about fee's but they are flat out lying. Many are like street walkers in a trailer park - drag a hundred dollar bill and maybe no takers -drag a $200.00 bill and a few grab it - drag a $350.00 dollar bill and 55 of them all come running and suddenly those hybrids and 1004-P are a fantastic product.

 

[George Hatch]

It seems to me that the main reason appraisers would actually *want* an AMCs to establish a minimum fee is to prevent their competition (other fee appraisers) from underbidding them and driving the pricing lower.

If you actually do believe that it is the AMCs and not the appraisers who drive the amount of the fee then you should encourage an AMC that requires the appraisers set their own fees, not call them a coward for refusing to price-set. It's only if you think it is the appraisers who are driving these prices down that you would think it a good idea for an AMC to intervene and to set a minimum fee that's independent of what the appraisers would otherwise bid.

Pick one, 'cause nobody gets to have it both ways.

 

[DWiley]

What do you think the "fair compensation" fee range should be?

What is the fair price for a average quality, 1400 SF ranch home with no garage, 3 bedrooms and 2 baths? Does that not vary by location? Same with appraisals.

i have told you how I would price it as an appraiser. Just do the math. Besides, it does not matter what I think it should be. It is the market (the appraisers in the market) that will dictate the fees.

I will say that if the marketplace as a whole is not smarter with the 1004P than it was with the 2055, that could be a fatal mistake.

 

[ucbruin]

It seems to me that the main reason appraisers would actually *want* an AMCs to establish a minimum fee is to prevent their competition (other fee appraisers) from underbidding them and driving the pricing lower.

If you actually do believe that it is the AMCs and not the appraisers who drive the amount of the fee then you should encourage an AMC that requires the appraisers set their own fees, not call them a coward for refusing to price-set. It's only if you think it is the appraisers who are driving these prices down that you would think it a good idea for an AMC to intervene and to set a minimum fee that's independent of what the appraisers would otherwise bid.

Pick one, 'cause nobody gets to have it both ways.

I'm not calling it cowardly for AMCs not to set their own fees....
I'm calling it cowardly for DW to continually and voluntarily participate in discussions regarding fees as a representative of SL....
To provide SL's side of the issue and yet dance around answering direct questions about SL....
With a most disingenuous mantra....

No one else need agree with my position....

 

[bnmappraisal]

You have a Direct Lender will be hiring inspectors to do a separate “inspection” which will be forwarded to you - upon which you will base your value. And your lender implied a $300 fee for your service is reasonable?

Although none of my clients have mentioned any sort of hybrid/bi-fur, etc type reports, I think I can see MCG's point

i.e. I currently have a direct lender client paying me $450/report via Merc Net ($450 is actually above my published Merc Net fee AND this lender pays the portal fee). So I could see them paying an appraiser $300 for the valuation part and (as UC has mentioned in a different thread) paying an appraiser $150 for the inspection. Boom! $300 + $150 = $450 total fee. If they found it was saving them time on the TAT I could see some lenders considering this option

 

[bnmappraisal]

Didn't take me long to read between the lines that this is all about the fee.

(my bold) EXACTLY!!!

 

[ucbruin]

What is the fair price for a average quality, 1400 SF ranch home with no garage, 3 bedrooms and 2 baths? Does that not vary by location? Same with appraisals.

i have told you how I would price it as an appraiser. Just do the math. Besides, it does not matter what I think it should be. It is the market (the appraisers in the market) that will dictate the fees.

I will say that if the marketplace as a whole is not smarter with the 1004P than it was with the 2055, that could be a fatal mistake.

A)
"Besides, it does not matter what I think it should be. It is the market (the appraisers in the market) that will dictate the fees."

B)
"...I have told Fannie that in order for the 1004P tests to have any degree of success there will have to be fair compensation (to the appraiser) for the work involved."

DW....

If you truly believe A to be correct....

Then....

Then why did you feel the need to share B with Fannie and the AF?

I obviously have my opinion....

 

[George Hatch]

I'm not calling it cowardly for AMCs not to set their own fees....
I'm calling it cowardly for DW to continually and voluntarily participate in discussions regarding fees as a representative of SL....
To provide SL's side of the issue and yet dance around answering direct questions about SL....
With a most disingenuous mantra....

No one else need agree with my position....

I don't consider DWs participation on this forum to be a function of his job or as being representative of the official company policy. He prolly has to temper his remarks so as to not violate the terms of his employment but it seems to me that if he was doing the same thing Doctor Manahattan used to do here that his line would be way different.

He's disclosed his employment. That disclosure alone should be sufficient to provide context for his comments; people can form their own opinions on his credibility from there. I don't see any reason for anyone to think he's being sneaky or underhanded.

I also think it's a mistake to assume he's even at liberty to discuss fees by amount on an internet forum, whether public or private. Why would any company in any facet of the appraisal business allow their employees to do that on the internet?

The alternative to DW participating - even if on the less than full disclosure mode - is him leaving the forum and taking with him the info that he has been contributing to our understanding of that side of the business. Who else has ever provided as much insight into the workings of the AMC business as Danny? The same for TimD before he left - he was a conduit to some of the workings at the GSEs, now lost to us all for good because people can't compartmentalize between the business vs the profession.

If you don't want to deal with the way Danny posts then just put him on ignore.