C1 or C2

[Cob]

UAD is quite clear. Never lived in is C1. Lived in, C2.

Stop using common sense, there are some on here who don't like it and would argue with the wall to think they're right.

 

[J Grant]

If you put maple hardwood floors in a MH quality house, it's still a low-quality house. Now, if you tear out the walls made of paneling, replace with thick sheetrock, put crown molding and hardwood floors plus new fixtures, new doors, etc. yeah, it might change the quality. But again, putting new cloth on an old garment isn't going to move the needle. And all you have done is created a super-adequacy in an inadequate home.

Agree

Taht is why ino it works better to use a blank line on the bottom of SCA grid and write in upgrades to address upgrades and an adjustment for them in a comp,

As you said, and Iposted earlier, excess quality upgrades in a fair or lower end construcotn and price range home approaches an over improvement or super adegaucy at some point.

Quality adjustments can be made when a comp has a better or inferior degree of quality but not enough to jump it to a different cetegory.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Over-improvements are discounted. New construction upon old often takes on the effective age of the old. The old rarely takes on the effective age of the new.

 

[alebrewer]

Taht is why ino it works better to use a blank line on the bottom of SCA grid and write in upgrades to address upgrades and an adjustment for them in a comp,

Question: if you installed new vinyl flooring in a home would you be performing an upgrade?

BTW - I don't disagree that an 'upgrades' field is one way to handle it. What I disagree with is saying that using higher quality materials in a renovation does not affect the quality. It absolutely does affect the quality. There's just no way around that.

 

[alebrewer]

Over-improvements are discounted. New construction upon old often takes on the effective age of the old. The old rarely takes on the effective age of the new.

You're not answering the question. Of course all you have said herein is accurate. That has nothing to do with the scenario presented, though...

 

[Cob]

It's really up to the appraiser to decide, I have completed appraisal reports and a comparable sale was a new property that started construction in October of 2021, construction was completed in December 2021, property closed in January of 2022, when place in the grid of appraisal report, it shows as a 1 year old property, even though it was completed a month ago, I called the comparable C1 and EXPLAINED in the appraisal report.

To me (and I may be wrong, I'm sure others will tell me I am wrong) , this is one of the reasons that the Condition Ratings and Definitions state C1 to be "have not been previously occupied" for situations like this, just my opinion, but you have to LOVE AF, I mean 7 pages of people pontificating on the matter and telling others they are wrong, when it's simply the OPINION of the appraiser to determine things like this.



C1

The improvements have been recently constructed and have not been previously occupied. The entire structure and all components are new
and the dwelling features no physical depreciation.

Note: Newly constructed improvements that feature recycled or previously used materials and/or components can be considered new dwellings
provided that the dwelling is placed on a 100 percent new foundation and the recycled materials and the recycled components have been
rehabilitated/remanufactured into like-new condition. Improvements that have not been previously occupied are not considered “new” if they
have any significant physical depreciation (that is, newly constructed dwellings that have been vacant for an extended period of time without
adequate maintenance or upkeep).

C2

The improvements feature no deferred maintenance, little or no physical depreciation, and require no repairs. Virtually all building components are new or have been recently repaired, refinished, or rehabilitated. All outdated components and finishes have been updated and/or replaced with components that meet current standards. Dwellings in this category are either almost new or have been recently completely renovated and are similar in condition to new construction.

Note: The improvements represent a relatively new property that is well maintained with no deferred maintenance and little or no physical
depreciation, or an older property that has been recently completely renovated.

 

[jay trotta]

Subject was sold as new construction about 9 months ago. Now it is under contract as my subject. I was told it was never lived in. C1 claims "very recently constructed." Is this in the time frame of very recently constructed (assuming it didn't sit around before the prior sale)?

IMO- you would be hard pressed to prove it was never lived in. Therefore, C-2 would be correct; good condition & minimum depreciation.

 

[Cob]

IMO- you would be hard pressed to prove it was never lived in. Therefore, C-2 would be correct; good condition & minimum depreciation.

So are appraisers lawyers now, that we are expected to have to prove things like this? New construction properties are typically sold and the builder/owner take their money and run, you can simply check the tax records or call to see if the property had conveyed during that 9 months, if it hadn't, unless it was rented, then they are probably telling the truth that it was never lived in or as UAD Definitions state, Improvements that have not been previously occupied are not considered “new” if they have any significant physical depreciation (that is, newly constructed dwellings that have been vacant for an extended period of time without adequate maintenance or upkeep). The property would have to have been an "extended period of time without adequate maintenance or upkeep" so again, this is a case by case situation in which the appraiser decides, NOT another appraiser on an Internet group telling the appraiser what would be correct. Unless YOU actually viewed the property, then you aren't really the authority to determine that C2 "would be correct" or what condition rating to give the property.

 

[alebrewer]

It's really up to the appraiser to decide, I have completed appraisal reports and a comparable sale was a new property that started construction in October of 2021, construction was completed in December 2021, property closed in January of 2022, when place in the grid of appraisal report, it shows as a 1 year old property, even though it was completed a month ago, I called the comparable C1 and EXPLAINED in the appraisal report.

To me (and I may be wrong, I'm sure others will tell me I am wrong) , this is one of the reasons that the Condition Ratings and Definitions state C1 to be "have not been previously occupied" for situations like this, just my opinion, but you have to LOVE AF, I mean 7 pages of people pontificating on the matter and telling others they are wrong, when it's simply the OPINION of the appraiser to determine things like this.



C1

The improvements have been recently constructed and have not been previously occupied. The entire structure and all components are new
and the dwelling features no physical depreciation.

Note: Newly constructed improvements that feature recycled or previously used materials and/or components can be considered new dwellings
provided that the dwelling is placed on a 100 percent new foundation and the recycled materials and the recycled components have been
rehabilitated/remanufactured into like-new condition. Improvements that have not been previously occupied are not considered “new” if they
have any significant physical depreciation (that is, newly constructed dwellings that have been vacant for an extended period of time without
adequate maintenance or upkeep).

C2

The improvements feature no deferred maintenance, little or no physical depreciation, and require no repairs. Virtually all building components are new or have been recently repaired, refinished, or rehabilitated. All outdated components and finishes have been updated and/or replaced with components that meet current standards. Dwellings in this category are either almost new or have been recently completely renovated and are similar in condition to new construction.

Note: The improvements represent a relatively new property that is well maintained with no deferred maintenance and little or no physical
depreciation, or an older property that has been recently completely renovated.

meh - the board has always been like this. Something that's important enough to banter about for some folks may not matter at all to others. Doesn't make either group right or wrong...

 

[J Grant]

So are appraisers lawyers now, that we are expected to have to prove things like this? New construction properties are typically sold and the builder/owner take their money and run, you can simply check the tax records or call to see if the property had conveyed during that 9 months, if it hadn't, unless it was rented, then they are probably telling the truth that it was never lived in or as UAD Definitions state, Improvements that have not been previously occupied are not considered “new” if they have any significant physical depreciation (that is, newly constructed dwellings that have been vacant for an extended period of time without adequate maintenance or upkeep). The property would have to have been an "extended period of time without adequate maintenance or upkeep" so again, this is a case by case situation in which the appraiser decides, NOT another appraiser on an Internet group telling the appraiser what would be correct. Unless YOU actually viewed the property, then you aren't really the authority to determine that C2 "would be correct" or what condition rating to give the property.

If it is only up to the appraiser, then why did they post it on the bulletin board? Obviously, none of us have seen it.

When people post a question, they get responses, which can lead them to think or reevaluate—and they can choose who to listen to or who to ignore. (or ignore all of it if they choose to ).