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C3 Vs Average

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Mike Seward

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
A lender is telling me that C3/C4 means average; C5 means fair, etc. I thought the terms good/fair/poor went out the window when the Q's and C's came in.
Any thoughts?
 

JTip

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Pennsylvania
C4 is average. Furnace, hot water tank in working condition. 30yo siding is still functional, 20yo roof shows ample grit and no curling.

If you put C3 on a 1950's house (read the definition), you better be typing "furnace updated 10 years ago, 8yo hot water tank, kitchen update in the 2005, roof updated 2012."

BIGGEST mistake most appraisers make.
 

Mr Rex

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
The UAD C ratings roughly correlate to the Marshall and Swift Condition ratings that were used for years.

M&S UAD
Excellent C1
Very Good C2
Good C3
Average C4
Fair C5
Poor C6
 

DWiley

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Tennessee
A lender is telling me that C3/C4 means average; C5 means fair, etc. I thought the terms good/fair/poor went out the window when the Q's and C's came in.
Any thoughts?
My thought is that the C ratings mean just what the definitions say that they mean. C1 means brand new and not previously occupied. etc. etc. C2 means not new but renovated to like new condition. etc. etc. In most markets, if the ratings are applied properly, the vast majority of homes will be either C3 or C4.

The problem with using "rough correlations" is just that, they are rough correlations. For example, a home renovated to like new condition so that it is in "Excellent" condition, is still C2, not C1. :) And, a home might be in good or average overall condition, but still be a C6 due to one significant issue.

Read the definitions and apply the ratings according to the actual definitions, not according to some roughly corresponding scale that someone else invented.
 
Last edited:

glenn walker

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
We don't use average anymore BUT in reality a C-4 is what we called Average Pre-UAD :)
 

J Grant

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
A lender is telling me that C3/C4 means average; C5 means fair, etc. I thought the terms good/fair/poor went out the window when the Q's and C's came in.
Any thoughts?

Are they trying to get you to change a condition rating?

The ratings mean exactly what they say- what is the context for the conversation.
 

TRESinc

Elite Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Ohio
The problem with using "rough correlations" is just that, they are rough correlations. For example, a home renovated to like new condition so that it is in "Excellent" condition, is still C2, not C1. :) And, a home might be in good or average overall condition, but still be a C6 due to one significant issue.

the real world is funny sometimes. i am a great example.

in 2013 i bought a house via an estate sale that had not been updated in 30+ years with a few exceptions - windows were 4 years old, roof was 10 years old. i completely gutted the entire house down to studs. put in all new electric (including 3 panels, removed all the knob and tube), all new pex plumbing, all new drywall throughout including ceilings, new kitchen, new baths, new flooring, new water tank, new furnace and ca, new sump, finished 70% of the basement, new siding, new temp/humidty controlled exhaust fan in the attic, rebuilt the chimney and added a new liner and probably more that isn't coming to mind. in a nutshell everything but the studs and the foundation were replaced.

refi'd and the appraiser called it a C3. granted i am impartial as it's my house AND i am an appraiser but i would have thought it to be a C2. to be honest i'm not sure what more i could have done in the appraiser's eye to make it a C2 - there wasn't anything left to do.
 

DWiley

Elite Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Tennessee
the real world is funny sometimes. i am a great example.

in 2013 i bought a house via an estate sale that had not been updated in 30+ years with a few exceptions - windows were 4 years old, roof was 10 years old. i completely gutted the entire house down to studs. put in all new electric (including 3 panels, removed all the knob and tube), all new pex plumbing, all new drywall throughout including ceilings, new kitchen, new baths, new flooring, new water tank, new furnace and ca, new sump, finished 70% of the basement, new siding, new temp/humidty controlled exhaust fan in the attic, rebuilt the chimney and added a new liner and probably more that isn't coming to mind. in a nutshell everything but the studs and the foundation were replaced.

refi'd and the appraiser called it a C3. granted i am impartial as it's my house AND i am an appraiser but i would have thought it to be a C2. to be honest i'm not sure what more i could have done in the appraiser's eye to make it a C2 - there wasn't anything left to do.
I have noted some resistance to use of the C2 rating. It seems people go from C1 to C3. I do not know why, but that has been my observation. What you describe sure seems like a C2 to me. :)
 

gregb

Elite Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
California
Would a one year old occupied residence not updated or remodeled ever meet the definition of a C2 rating?
 
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