C3 Vs Average

[Mike Seward]

Would a one year old occupied residence not updated or remodeled ever meet the definition of a C2 rating?

My thought is that the C ratings mean just what the definitions say that they mean. C1 means brand new and not previously occupied. etc. etc. C2 means not new but renovated to like new condition. etc. etc. In most markets, if the ratings are applied properly, the vast majority of homes will be either C3 or C4.

The problem with using "rough correlations" is just that, they are rough correlations. For example, a home renovated to like new condition so that it is in "Excellent" condition, is still C2, not C1. And, a home might be in good or average overall condition, but still be a C6 due to one significant issue.

Read the definitions and apply the ratings according to the actual definitions, not according to some roughly corresponding scale that someone else invented.

Thanks for all the replies. The lender was trying to ignore the UAD definitions and correlate to the old terms.

 

[JTip]

refi'd and the appraiser called it a C3.

Probably called it a C3 because there were no C2 closed sales.

"Correction request: Please provide a C2 sale in order to bracket this amenity."

Doesn't affect the value, C2/C3 whatever.

 

[J Grant]

Would a one year old occupied residence not updated or remodeled ever meet the definition of a C2 rating?

Yes it would- new or almost as new.

The only difference between a C 1 and a C 2 house of same few months to a year old is occupancy - C 1 is has not not been previously occupied

 

[DWiley]

C2


The improvements feature no deferred maintenance, little or no physical depreciation, and require no repairs. Virtually all building components

are new or have been recently repaired, refinished, or rehabilitated. All outdated components and finishes have been updated and/or replaced

with components that meet current standards. Dwellings in this category are either almost new or have been recently completely renovated and

are similar in condition to new construction.

 

[J Grant]

Probably called it a C3 because there were no C2 closed sales.

"Correction request: Please provide a C2 sale in order to bracket this amenity."

Doesn't affect the value, C2/C3 whatever.

?? There can be a great deal of value difference between C 2 and C 3, it cost a lot of money and significant replacement to get a house into C 2 condition. And if the market is not returning the value of cost that means the owner over improved to C 2 into a super adequacy

The appraiser above is just lazy- likely are C 2 closed sales older date or a bit further away, or a C 1 comp can be used. If it is truly the case no C 2 or C 1 sales, then the market area shows the subject may be over improved.

Either way, to fudge the subject condition just to make life easier for the appraiser is wrong.

 

[residentialguy]

The UAD C ratings roughly correlate to the Marshall and Swift Condition ratings that were used for years.

M&S UAD
Excellent C1
Very Good C2
Good C3
Average C4
Fair C5
Poor C6

The problem with using "rough correlations" is just that, they are rough correlations. For example, a home renovated to like new condition so that it is in "Excellent" condition, is still C2, not C1. And, a home might be in good or average overall condition, but still be a C6 due to one significant issue.

Read the definitions and apply the ratings according to the actual definitions, not according to some roughly corresponding scale that someone else invented.

Combine these to posts and you have your answer.

 

[residentialguy]

in 2013 i bought a house via an estate sale that had not been updated in 30+ years with a few exceptions - windows were 4 years old, roof was 10 years old. i completely gutted the entire house down to studs. put in all new electric (including 3 panels, removed all the knob and tube), all new pex plumbing, all new drywall throughout including ceilings, new kitchen, new baths, new flooring, new water tank, new furnace and ca, new sump, finished 70% of the basement, new siding, new temp/humidty controlled exhaust fan in the attic, rebuilt the chimney and added a new liner and probably more that isn't coming to mind. in a nutshell everything but the studs and the foundation were replaced.

C6 and Q6

no, wait...never mind. I forgot that we don't count the HO.

 

[TRESinc]

Probably called it a C3 because there were no C2 closed sales.

"Correction request: Please provide a C2 sale in order to bracket this amenity."

Doesn't affect the value, C2/C3 whatever.

novel idea but in this case i know that wasn't a factor. the lender i used is also my longest standing client and in ~20 years they have never made such a request. he did have (partially) remodeled properties used as comps but they really were not comps, just remodeled properties. mine is a ranch and i had one of each for comps - ranch, colonial and cape. i think it was a case of not being able to find C2 comps and not wanting to make across the board adjustments for condition to make his life easier, but i could always be wrong.

The appraiser above is just lazy- likely are C 2 closed sales older date or a bit further away, or a C 1 comp can be used. If it is truly the case no C 2 or C 1 sales, then the market area shows the subject may be over improved.

there would be no C1 properties in the city i am located in that would be considered comparable. my house is 64 years old and there hasn't been any new construction ranch homes here, everything is huge mcmansions (very little undeveloped land to build on).

FWIW after purchase price and renovation costs the appraised value was about 15% higher, and while i thought the appraised value was a bit higher than i could sell for at the time it wasn't far off. i knew what the potential of the house was and i budgeted my renovation to the point of at least breaking even when everything was said and done (price + reno costs = current value). sometimes it actually pays to be an appraiser

 

[NC Appraising]

I have noted some resistance to use of the C2 rating. It seems people go from C1 to C3. I do not know why, but that has been my observation. What you describe sure seems like a C2 to me.

I seem to do the same thing. They need one more "C" or re-write C2 to include more homes that has been say 80% updated or remodeled. The below describes a 2-3 year old home or a home that has been completely remodeled and is now like a new home (a house that has been gutted and everything is new)

What about a home that was built in 1990, and has been 80% remodeled? (remodeled kitchen and baths, new flooring, paint, fixtures, doors, but the roof is 5 years old, original vinyl siding, etc) In most cases, we will label it a C3 and most other homes could also be C3 with a $30k price difference. In reality, it should be a C2, but the definition is just to narrow.

 

[NC Appraising]

I have a lender (uses a AMC) that will not allow me to rate homes as Q5.

Lets take a poll:

A house that is located in a tract built subdivision and is what is known as a starter home. A typical square vinyl sided home with minimal upgrades.

I say most appraisers rate this as a Q4 home because of lenders and AMC's. I say it is a Q5 home.


If Fannie Mae wants a more accurate UAD system, they need to take AMCs and lenders out of the appraisal ordering system. Lenders and AMCs just screw up everything.