Car hoist, personal property?

[Blueprint]

Unless it was included as part of an agreement for sale of the property, I don't see where it would be justly classified as anything other than personal property.

Exactly. It is purely conditional and also applicable to state law.

 

[Richard Carlsen]

If it is permanently attached to the land, even via an improvement, it is part of the real property.

However, think about it for a minute. How many other houses have car hoists? What will be the contributory value? How will you justify the adjustment in the grid?

My guess is that this is nearly one of a kind and while it is part of the real property, chances are that 50% or the guys looking at the house would love it while the other 50% would hate it. Like so many other "unique" things people do to their houses, the bottom line on many is that there is really no measurable contributory value. It is obvious that if this is a one of a kind that there is no market demand for such a bolted on car hoist. And lacking market demand, most likely there is no value.

If the car hoist is to remain with the property I would make a statement something like this to wash it out of the value consideration (if you don't think that it will add or detract from the value):

"Subject has a car hoist that is permanently attached with bolts to the subject's improvements. There are no known sales of similar housing with similar attached car hoists indicating that there is little or no market demand for such. That being the case, in the opinion of the author, little or no contributory value to this element can be assigned or even estimated. Therefore, while the item is noted in the sales grid, no adjustment is considered appropriate in the valuation process. The presence of such a hoist may impact appeal but on an individual buyer basis that cannot be determined in the market. The car hoist is not considered however, to inhibit normal marketability."

 

[Couch Potato]

If it is permanently attached to the land, even via an improvement, it is part of the real property.

Don't you mean to say, if it is permanently attached to the land, even via an improvement, it can be considered part of the real property"? When such cases in end up in court attachment is not the only thing given consideration. As for "permanent" attachment, nothing in this world is truly permanent. In this case the attachment is by bolts. Bolts are threaded and designed to be used in both permanent and temporary situations. As is typical in this type of situation, there is not a simple answer one way or the other. The standard method of determination consists of three factors (attachment, adaptation and intent) not one. The entire situation must be examined.

 

[Richard Carlsen]

I'm not sure if you've ever sold real estate and looked at the listing of improvements and appurtenances that are included in a standard sales agreement. They include such things as: TV antenna and rotor system, garage door opener and transmitter, carpet, lighting fixtures and shades, drapery and curtain hardware, window shades and blinds, screens, storm windows, stationary laundry tubs, water softener unless rented, water heater, incinerators, heating and air conditioning equipment, water pump and pressure tanks, built-in kitchen appliances, awnings, mail boxes, all plantings and fences.

I would suspect that a car hoist that is bolted to the floor of a garage could very well be considered to be part of the real property unless exempted in a purchase agreement if a TV antenna is considered part of the real estate. If not, then all of the things noted above should be excluded from the appraisal of any real estate.

Rather than get into long philosophical and legal discussions on this issue, I'll just say that it has been my policy that if something is permanently affixed to the improvements or the ground, it is considered part of the real property and treated as such.

That's my policy but each appraiser is free to decide for him- or herself where they draw the line.

 

[Couch Potato]

Your long list of items are all things which a good agent addresses in the purchase agreement to be sure there is no misunderstanding. For every one of them a court case can be found declaring them personal property as well as a court case declaring them real property. In the court cases I've seen the ultimate factor that swayed the judgement one way or the other was intent of the owner. Being attached simply means a determination is needed, not that the issue is decided.

 

[Richard Carlsen]

So in a refi appraisal, a good appraiser will determine what the HO intends to be included in the property?

Far from it. The appraiser makes the determination what qualifies as real property to be appraised, discloses it and then appraises it. You cannot use what the HO intends because you must verify everything the HO says through an independent source and there is none.

The other thing that a lot of appraisers forget is that not everything has a contributory value or is significant enough to warrant an adjustment in the sales grid. Such, is my opinion of a car hoist or an 8 ft wide satellite dish. I don't know how many of those I've seen with the HO telling me that he paid $2500 for the setup when, by the time I did my appraisal, the market could buy an 18 inch dish and get the same results.

 

[Couch Potato]

So in a refi appraisal, a good appraiser will determine what the HO intends to be included in the property?

Far from it. The appraiser makes the determination what qualifies as real property to be appraised, discloses it and then appraises it. You cannot use what the HO intends because you must verify everything the HO says through an independent source and there is none.

The other thing that a lot of appraisers forget is that not everything has a contributory value or is significant enough to warrant an adjustment in the sales grid. Such, is my opinion of a car hoist or an 8 ft wide satellite dish. I don't know how many of those I've seen with the HO telling me that he paid $2500 for the setup when, by the time I did my appraisal, the market could buy an 18 inch dish and get the same results.

Certainly. You ask the homeowner if they would take the hoist with them if they were selling the house today, just as you do for fancy chandeliers and other such items. You must consider what the homeowner intends, because it is one of the three factors that legally determines if an item is real property or personal property. Failing to consider intent would be negligence on the part of the appraiser.

As you note, rarely are such items truly significant, but typically the homeowner sees them as important.

 

[PropertyEconomics]

I apologize to all but I have not read this entire thread. I would make sure that if the hoist is not included the garage is not counted for more cars than it will hold without the hoist. I have seen some that have three car garages listed as four because one can be parked below the hoist and the property was sold as a 4 car garage for that reason.

 

[Ken B]

I apologize to all but I have not read this entire thread. I would make sure that if the hoist is not included the garage is not counted for more cars than it will hold without the hoist. I have seen some that have three car garages listed as four because one can be parked below the hoist and the property was sold as a 4 car garage for that reason.

Like this?

 

[Richard Carlsen]

Certainly. You ask the homeowner if they would take the hoist with them if they were selling the house today, just as you do for fancy chandeliers and other such items. You must consider what the homeowner intends, because it is one of the three factors that legally determines if an item is real property or personal property.

This is of course the same HO that you believe when he says that the new furnace and air conditioning unit is being installed in 2 hours?

Sorry. But the HO has a vested interest in the outcome of the appraisal and nothing he says that cannot be independently verified should be considered.

I am the appraiser and I am the one who makes the determination what does and what does not get considered in my appraisal report. The judge may rely on HO's intent when it is in his court but when it goes through my number cruncher, that decision is mine.