Changing Lender Name...

[Fred]

Whew!

George,
The first thing I would want to know before offering any advice on how to do this “new” assignment in as little as 30 minutes (or more if they’ll pay more) is whether or not the new lender already has a hand-me-down copy of the old report.

The second thing you might want to know is whether the second lender is satisfied with the first date of appraisal. I get the impression from your post that the second lender is satisfied with the original valuation date.

The third thing is you only have to focus on adhering to two parts of the Ethics Rule that have not changed since day one: start a workfile and no misleading. That way you can avoid reading 20 pages of opinions, answers and other difficult techno-jargon.

 

[SmilingDog]

Lee Ann thanks again for the link to the new AO's - I had read these a while back but must have had a mental lapse. Now I've printed them out and have them handy in case I need to reference.

I atill do not see that the confidentiality of the Original lender is at stake, especially when the Original Lender has discussed the appraisal (and loan) with the new lender and given me a WRITTEN authorization to release the appraisal report to Lender B.

I see though where the client / name change could be interpretted as a new "assignment". As a matter of fact I asked Lender B to send me an order for the appraisal and I would then treat that as a new assignment.

Have not yet heard back...

I'll re-phrase the intended use etc portions so that it is crystal clear that it is a NEW assignment.


On a similar note - today I was called by a major lender asking for an email of an appraisal I did for a mortgage broker. The Broker had sent the loan file and appraisal to Major Lender to fund the loan. But the appraisal the Broker sent was a photo copy. Basically told Major Lender that they would have to call Broker for email PDF file, as I was not releasing it to anyone.

 

[Farm Gal]

George: you welcome!

Steve:

start a workfile and no misleading.

The thirty pages do have the advantage of addressing that issue...

They (alsong with my infamous class notes) do explain that incorporation by reference is sufficient. On our files we have written Xref {file name}. This suffices as I understand the new rooles.

I still think that if the new lender has the original clients report AND I am made aware that the file has been 'released' then I want permission from the original client IN WRITING to perform the new assignment ... not for USPAP compliance, but to insure that I am in no way 'acting not in the best interest of the original client'. <_<

Otherwise we will follow our previous office work-around: the other office appraiser does a new appraisal. YES we charge for the service. Sorry lender/homeowenr we dislike being sued ... or go get yourself another appraiser :twisted: . I don't care much myself how they solve that fee problem thing. We can elect to discount the second appraisal, we can elect to decline the assignment altogether! But even at full fee I challenge any other office to get as fast a turn time as the office that has already performed one appraisal on a property B) .

 

[Darrell Hignite]

At my last, but not least instructor's class in Las Vegas in June, I was told by "Da Man" that it is "A new assignment" and that all the information that was done for the first lender is confidential and for that lender only. The second lender that gets the clearance from the first lender is looking to make a loan and " A New Assignment" is what they are asking of you.

Sure, it is up to the appraiser to charge what they want, but always remember, if you don't do it, they will pay full fee to another. I recently appraised the same house twice within a week for full fee both times. The first time for the owners to give them an asking price for interested couple. My client was the owner. The Second time for a mortgage bank for the couple that was buying the house.

They were different assignments, but were both done within one week. Should I lower my fees for the second one, because the first one paid me COD and paid full fee. I didn't want the mortgage bank, that orders their appraisals from Jacksonville that I wanted less than the full fee. They might want me to do it for all their appraisals and I just got them up to the new rate.

I love the idea and it works because I have already gotten calls and always gotten full fees....

 

[Fred]

I posted

start a workfile and no misleading.

Lee Ann pointed out

The thirty pages do have the advantage of addressing that issue...

Lee Ann,
Uh…that’s two issues. I think I need a Groucho Marx smiley.

There is no “advantage” if the 30 pages lead to the type of frenzied, ad-hoc, new-this new-that included in this thread; instead of a concise road map for solving this and similar problems. Know the big “Rules” that control all practice, Standards and Statements. Execute the USPAP Process (my humble term). It runs from the Ethics Rule through Std 1 and generates a finished report under Std 2), ending before you reach down to those 30 pages, which I suspect are not part of USPAP at all. Consider that the ASB offers advice by applying the broad standard down to the narrow case study. Not vice verse, by starting in the footnotes and extrapolating that into a "Rule." In fact, each AO explcitly warns 'don't apply the answer given to other situations.'

Lee Ann, we have bandied this issue around before. And I take note of your bold text

I want permission from the original client IN WRITING to perform the new assignment ... not for USPAP compliance, but to insure that I am in no way 'acting not in the best interest of the original client'

. I am certainly not trying to stop you from harrassing your clients to release rights and perogatives they don't own. I hope they have not realized they could charge you for the service. And I am glad to see you say that such client harrasment is not a USPAP requirement. But someone who focuses on the Ethics Rule might want some clarification of whether you are supposed to act in your client's best interest or with disinterest. Just kidding.

Darrel writes,

I was told by "Da Man" that it is "A new assignment" and that all the information that was done for the first lender is confidential and for that lender only.

All the information? If that were true, you would not be able to use any comparable sales a second time (or the neighborhood boundaries, etc.) without express permission from the client.

I was told by 'Da USPAP' not to reveal “confidential information and assignment results” (Line 310). The definition (line 72) gives standards for what parts of "all the information," if any, might be confidential information. Darrell, I would be amazed (and disappointed) if ‘Da Man’ actually said what you posted because Da USPAP so clearly says something else. Is it possible that the message was that the report in its entirety is USPAP-confidential, not the individual pieces of information?

Beam me up, Scotty

 

[Farm Gal]

Steven Says:

I am certainly not trying to stop you from harrassing your clients to release rights and perogatives they don't own.

Steven, in all seriousness I know darn well they don't own the right to decide whether or not I perform an appraisal. In fact in my statement to the ASB I indicated that it is my opinion that an appraiser acting in a professional capacity should and in some senses has an obligation to perform those professional services to any and all who desire that service, even if some ten different parties desire those services! The key is that they must be willing to pay a comensurate fee for those services ~ . I am not going to any communist extremes here :lol:
(oh my, I can hear the groans and nitpickers pickin already.... )
I also feel that the poor homeowner who gets tabbed with multiple appraisal fees from Bait n' Switch Mortgage Companies needs a little help. But that is a seperate issue...

My caution in this matter relates solely to my desire not to have to educate a court. My observation of courts in MY work area is that some of the judges let thier common sense leak out thier ears when they raised the black robe over thier heads. Educating them is an exercise in frustration and futility. IF I have contractual release from obligation to client A, I effectively have a CONTRACT permitting contract with whomever else I please. IF client A does not care to oblige: it is my opinion that even a judge with rectocranial inversion ought to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel: a completely new appraiser has no prior obligation to the original client :twisted: .

But someone who focuses on the Ethics Rule might want some clarification of whether you are supposed to act in your client's best interest or with disinterest. Just kidding.

No actually I think you have the root of the matter right there!

An appraiser operating fully under the Ethics rule ought to be a fully D3P, with NO bias, whether from fiduciary, societal, or judicial sources. :blink:

It ain't a perfect world.

CAn you look in the mirro and tell me that on no occasion in the last month has your opinion of value not been nudged a bit by 'factors'? Not even a teensy lil' bit? If so I would opin that you are either of Hammurabian wisdom, or not as self aware as you otta be in order to competently ethically perform appraisals.

because if you cannot see factors and be aware of factors influencing value you don't belong in this job!

Pbbbttt~~~
GRIN

Ball's in your court! :twisted: or let the poor thing lie already

 

[Fred]

Steven, in all seriousness I know darn well they don't own the right to decide whether or not I perform an appraisal.

Serious? I was only foolin’. I thought the one about the banks charging you for all those releases was a pretty good one. Didn’t mean to get your panties in a bunch.

CAn you look in the mirro and tell me that on no occasion in the last month has your opinion of value not been nudged a bit by 'factors'?

If I am looking in a mirror, wouldn’t I be talking to myself. In honesty, it hasn't been a month, it has been since I went from provisional to certified general and I no longer required my “mentor’s” signature to get paid. But then, I am not in the residential mortgage pressure cooker.

I note that when you came after me, it was Ethics Rule in hand. Brava! Is that because it is impossible to go after someone for disagreeing with some of the now seven versions of AO-3? – especially that the different versions contradict each other?

At the risk of angling back toward the original topic, the ASB’s old opinion was that updates were extensions of old assignments and their new opinion is the updates are new assignments (while the Ethics Rule requirements for workfile and not misleading remained consistent). Is it my imagination or are updates BOTH new assignments and sometimes simultaneously extensions of an old scope of work almost in its entirety to form the basis of a “new” opinion that looks and sounds exactly like the old one.

At the least, if ASB believes that the best way teach the art of USPAP-sufficient appraisals is to tell everyone to think of updates as new assignments only and not extensions of old assignments, shouldn’t there at least be linguistic consistency? Forward page vii refers to “updates of a prior report” and the title of AO-3 is “updates of a prior assignment.” If ASB wants us to think these are only new assignments, why do they keep referring to it as an adjustment to prior work? And then, a half-page below the “new assignment” heading, AO-3 elaborates on incorporating the old report – presumably because "incorporating" the old is not the same as "extending" the old.

I still don’t see the “advantage” to mucking around in all that over my simple system predicated on six words.

Haste la vista

 

[Farm Gal]

:rofl:
OK so before someone complains and gets a moderator to lock this thread, Steven & I have a running joke going.... I, at least, respect him in the morning, and my husband doesn't mind And for what it's worth couldn't pick him out of a three person police line up!

~~~
Steven: As you know, I do agree that the degree of verbiage which has been generated to clarify the (fairly) simple question "can I assist property owner by giving lender #2,3,4 some piece of a paper that tells them a value?" seems excessive.

At best the dodge that has been provided is cumbersome and steers through the curve only by avoiding various wrecks in the roadway, probably leaves additional crashes in the rearview, and might best have been avoided by a simple statement "yes" ~ providing a clear path with no unneccesary jerking of the wheel or use of brakes... (or addl AO's).

Is that because it is impossible to go after someone for disagreeing with some of the now seven versions of AO-3? – especially that the different versions contradict each other?

Welll... yes. And there you and I are in agreement! On the other hand using the old method of pressing the witch, it will if nothing else bury the original concern by weight of what is writ in stone (replica stone even...)

At the risk of angling back toward the original topic, the ASB’s old opinion was that updates were extensions of old assignments and their new opinion is the updates are new assignments (while the Ethics Rule requirements for workfile and not misleading remained consistent).

OK so what exactly does an appraiser have to have in the workfile of a similar property. Specifically let us take the case of a property "next door to the one you appraised last week"! Do you duplicate all the docs backing your analysis of what is essentially a cloned report with a new address and minor changes?? Or just reference the 'near same' workfile? At least in my neck of the woods there was years of debate about what was or was not required. I figured my 'incorporation by reference' of the 'same-same' house next door''s file sufficed. Apparently some of the ASB members felt a need to clarify to that effect, given the horror stories about appraisers being nailed to the wall by nasty state boards!

OK I'm done for a bit!

 

[Fred]

And for what it's worth couldn't pick him out of a three person police line up!

But I have photos (of you in San Fran).

OK so what exactly does an appraiser have to have in the workfile of a similar property.

The same things as for a non-similar property? Is this a trick question?

Do you duplicate all the docs backing your analysis

I can't say "all" because I don't know what is on these docs. However, I would like to hear how you satisfy 2-2b vii and ix by omitting that stuff out of the first report. Sounds like the first report may have bee prepared with 2-2c vii and ix.

 

[Farm Gal]

Bawww! You got 'em before I did!
Whatever the camera tells you I am really twenty pounds lighter

Is this a trick question?

yup!
So what DO you have to have in the work-file of a new assignment which happens to be a model match home down the street from one you did last week?

I KNOW there are a few folks watching this one...

Damn it if you gonna resort to short hand I am gonna have to go fetch 'the bible..." which believe it or not I took home since I couldn't find the 'reading room copy' the other night :rofl:

unlike some of you REAL gurus I don't DO that number thing

sigh.

have fun kids I am headed for the barn.