Client requires Sink hole comment.

[444nutman]

Here is the statement the client is requiring to put in reports.

All reports must address if there has been any visible or known sinkhole activity​

for subject property as well as immediate neighborhood.

This is too much. I have lived in Florida for a long time and nobody knows when a sinkhole is going to develop. There was one about 6 to 12 months ago, where a guy was sleeping and got swallowed up by the sink hole. I am sure if he knew if it was visible, he would not have plunged to his death. Sink holes just suddenly appear.

I called the client and told them I am not licensed nor certified to make such a guarantee. I also explained, I will not assume such a liability, so we are currently at a stalemate.
They will not accept my statement that I lack the training and license to discuss any potential sink hole activity in the subject's market area and told them to see statement #5 on page 4 under limited conditions.

 

[Shelgard]

Here is the statement the client is requiring to put in reports.

All reports must address if there has been any visible or known sinkhole activity​

for subject property as well as immediate neighborhood.

This is too much. I have lived in Florida for a long time and nobody knows when a sinkhole is going to develop. There was one about 6 to 12 months ago, where a guy was sleeping and got swallowed up by the sink hole. I am sure if he knew if it was visible, he would not have plunged to his death. Sink holes just suddenly appear.

I called the client and told them I am not licensed nor certified to make such a guarantee. I also explained, I will not assume such a liability, so we are currently at a stalemate.
They will not accept my statement that I lack the training and license to discuss any potential sink hole activity in the subject's market area and told them to see statement #5 on page 4 under limited conditions.

I dont see any request for any type of guarantee? Simple yes or no would do?

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Just sounds like a statement you (hopefully) did not see any sinkholes.
Not a guarantee one won't swallow the subject tomorrow. :icon_mrgreen:

 

[444nutman]

I guess, what I am worried about is the liability if a sinkhole swallows the subject in ten years. Any attorney could point to that very statement in my report, stating the appraiser did not notice a sinkhole or know of any in the area.
I walked around the property but would a divot in the lawn be considered a possible sinkhole. I don't know and would not know how to spot a sink hole other
than one that has already formed and called a sink hole by the news. They are random in Florida. Nobody knows or otherwise there would not be any houses falling into them.

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Maybe you should add a third sentence,

Previous ground performance is not an indicator of future success, ie no sink holes. Or, this is not a guarantee yadda...

We don't get sinkholes usually, but I've commented that subject is in a designated severe fire hazard zone, landslide, liquefaction, earthquake (who knew ), high wind velocity, etc zone. Never had a real issue since it was common for that area.

 

[Pilgrum]

Oh! Wait! Wait! I thought you said stink hole.

 

[Evincere]

Interesting. So, would a sink hole would be considered an "act of god". These things are natural, sudden and unpredictable phenomenon. Will Midwest appraisers be required to cite neighborhood tornado activity. How about Hurricane activity, or sudden flash flooding.

Appraisers are not prognosticators of natural disasters. Lender should order a geological survey or home inspector to satisfy this stip.

1. Where can I find available subsidence incident information for a specific area? back to top
   
   You can find this information in the Subsidence Incident Reports located on this website. Click the Excel Spreadsheet link. The data is arranged by county. Find your county and search under the column that is titled "address". It is here that you will have the best chance of finding the street locations. There are over 2000 reported incidents in the database.
2. Can a home inspector determine if there is a sinkhole on a property? Or determine if a property is more likely to have a sinkhole (e.g. land near water, etc.)? <A href="http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/FAQ.htm#top">back to top
   
   An inspector that is a licensed professional geologist and is trained to recognize sinkhole activity might be able to tell if a sinkhole exists on a piece of property. The problem exists when the sinkhole has not yet developed on the property and it gets built on. At a later date a sinkhole can occur and damage the property. It is possible, in some cases, to perform geological tests on a piece of property and assess the potential for sinkhole development. Some of the geological tests include ground penetrating radar (GPR), soil borings, and resistivity. All these method require experts and are costly to perform. It is not possible at this time to predict when and where EXACTLY a sinkhole will develop. Sinkhole activity is greatest when there have been drought conditions for some period of time and then there is a return to normal rainfall. A large rain event can weigh the soil down and can cause sinkholes to form. When the water level in the underlying limestone aquifer is depressed (due to drought or consumptive uses) the void spaces that once held water now are filled with air. Water provides some buoyancy and can keep the overlying geologic material stable. When the void contains air it is less competent and when a large rain event weighs the overburden down it can collapse into the underlying air-filled void.
3. Is there any way to have my property evaluated as to the risk of a sinkhole forming? back to top
   
   Professional geologists and geotechnical engineering consultants with professional geologists on staff can perform a variety of tests to attempt to locate buried cavities which might form sinkholes. These tests include ground penetrating radar surveys, electrical resistivity tests, and borings. However, test results may be affected by the local geology and elevation of the water table, and are not always conclusive. And in many cases the cost of a detailed survey is beyond the typical homeowner’s budget.

[url]http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/feedback/FAQ.htm#4[/URL]

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

Appraisers are not prognosticators of natural disasters.

Good verbiage. Good link for FL appraisers too.

I typically check the various readily available online available hazard maps and report if subject is in one. I think that's about the limit for the scope of normal appraisal work. Apart from the good old eyes, ears, nose.

 

[Evincere]

Maybe you should add a third sentence,

Previous ground performance is not an indicator of future success, ie no sink holes. Or, this is not a guarantee yadda...

An inspector that is a licensed professional geologist and is trained to recognize sinkhole activity might be able to tell if a sinkhole exists on a piece of property

If a trained, licensed geologist might be able to make a determination, it goes without saying that such reporting as requested by the Lender, by an Appraiser, even if just cursory is not within an Appraisers license scope, authority or expertise. And that is what I would tell a client.

 

[ctapraser]

Here is the statement the client is requiring to put in reports.

All reports must address if there has been any visible or known sinkhole activity​

for subject property as well as immediate neighborhood.

This is too much. I have lived in Florida for a long time and nobody knows when a sinkhole is going to develop. There was one about 6 to 12 months ago, where a guy was sleeping and got swallowed up by the sink hole. I am sure if he knew if it was visible, he would not have plunged to his death. Sink holes just suddenly appear.

I called the client and told them I am not licensed nor certified to make such a guarantee. I also explained, I will not assume such a liability, so we are currently at a stalemate.
They will not accept my statement that I lack the training and license to discuss any potential sink hole activity in the subject's market area and told them to see statement #5 on page 4 under limited conditions.

Appraiser did not see and/or made aware of any sinkhole activity. If sinkhole activity is a concern to the lender, the lender is invited to employ the services of a qualified professional.