Cont. Ed. is a Joke

[chad hampton]

Exactly my point. We have to share some of the blame. The AI courses have always been available - but everyone chooses McKissock. Wonder why?

I think it has a lot to do that for the past decade with the exception of a few years appraisers have been struggling. They’re really aren’t too many working appraisers who can take three days to go fly up to Chicago pay for a hotel meals and higher priced AI CE classes. Not When all they have to look forward to is a couple of $300 AMC appraisal orders waiting for them when they get home. Back when this was a legitimate profession I traveled to a few CE courses and stayed in hotels for one or two nights. But I’m not gonna justify that expense at this point. There’s no benefit.

But the crowd that you see posting everywhere, LinkedIn, etc., who are in higher up positions and probably making 250 K,40 days of PTO and 15 vacation days really have no concept of what the working appraiser goes through. Hell, they can’t even acknowledge that they played a significant part in the destruction of the profession. For them it’s business as usual.

 

[alebrewer]

I think it has a lot to do that for the past decade with the exception of a few years appraisers have been struggling. They’re really aren’t too many working appraisers who can take three days to go fly up to Chicago pay for a hotel meals and higher priced AI CE classes. Not When all they have to look forward to is a couple of $300 AMC appraisal orders waiting for them when they get home. Back when this was a legitimate profession I traveled to a few CE courses and stayed in hotels for one or two nights. But I’m not gonna justify that expense at this point. There’s no benefit.

But the crowd that you see posting everywhere, LinkedIn, etc., who are in higher up positions and probably making 250 K,40 days of PTO and 15 vacation days really have no concept of what the working appraiser goes through. Hell, they can’t even acknowledge that they played a significant part in the destruction of the profession. For them it’s business as usual.

That's how it was the first time I took the Demo classes - I took 'em in Colorado Springs. The last time, though (about 3 years ago), they were 100% online. Still just as rigorous, though.

 

[J Grant]

I have taken classes online and in person. IT IS THE SAME MATERIAL!
To qualify for CE, the material has to be the same or very similar, whether online or in person, and among providers as well.
I actually think online is harder as there can be exams, whereas in class you just sit there and listen ( or tune out )

IMo, voluntary additional education, of courses of interest or courses from the Appraisal Institute, might be more valuable than the mostly pedestrian CE offerings. The problem is the required hours. Content that can be explained in 2 hours is dragged out to meet 7 hours. Much of the material is not relevant to the actual problems one faces in assignments.

 

[chad hampton]

I think the difference between in person and online is that in person you spend a good portion of class in discussion. Sure, if you wanna sit in the back and just watch the clock that’s an option, but there was always good discussion that went on in person. Online you just sit there continuously checking a box. if nothing else it’s good to meet in person with a room full of working appraisers who talk about their experiences And you discuss ideas.

You would have to check, but I’m pretty sure in a lot of states have even done away with in person QE. Which I think is completely ridiculous. for the record when I was speaking on behalf of appraisal organizations we always opposed 100% online. And we couldn’t believe they were even considering it for QE. But money, talks, and bull**** walks, as usual.

 

[WestMichiganCG]

I took a bunch of my classes in person. It's a good place to get feedback. I also went out in the evenings with some of the appraisers in my class. I pulled one of the figures from one of the classes for a recent litigation case and feel pretty good about the knowledge base I attained. If you're talking about the Appraisal Bias class and words I shouldn't use...it could have been an email.

 

[George Hatch]

I don't think the market will support 100% live instruction even if online was outlawed.

It costs a certain amount of money to rent the venue and pay for coffee/tea. It costs money to pay the instructor the equivalent of a day's work and for travel and lodging if they're not within driving distance. It takes time/effort to advertise and do the accounting and such. Customer service.

So there's a minimum break-even number of course participants to run a day of live instruction. The break-even exists at a zero-profit margin for the entity running the operation, and nobody can afford to operate at a net loss over time.

I think 14hrs/year avg is excessive, I think USPAP updates at 2yr cycles at this point is excessive. One thing to bear in mind with the updates is that the coverage of "what's new" is usually only part of those courses. They repeat on the fundamentals because those fundamentals bear repeating and because a certain percentage of appraisers don't ever make the effort to understand WHY some of these requirements exist and how they connect to the day-to-day.

Nor is "education" the only reason for CE requirements. It's also for enforcement purposes. One thing CE does for the state is document the untruth of the "I didn't know because nobody ever told me" excuse.

"Mr JohnDoe#12, you took the course 3 times in the last 15 years. What do you mean nobody ever told you? "​

 

[J Grant]

I took a bunch of my classes in person. It's a good place to get feedback. I also went out in the evenings with some of the appraisers in my class. I pulled one of the figures from one of the classes for a recent litigation case and feel pretty good about the knowledge base I attained. If you're talking about the Appraisal Bias class and words I shouldn't use...it could have been an email.

When I used to go in person, it was interesting to talk to other appraisers on a break. The discussion was usually a wash - 2 good questions and then 10 inane ones that we were stuck listening to.

 

[J Grant]

I think they repeat the fundamentals to fill up time. If the new changes take at most 1 hour to explain, then how are they going to fill the other 6 mandatory hours ? These courses should be once every 4 years. If there is a critical change to USPAP, they can email it to all the appraisers who are registered.

 

[George Hatch]

While we're on the topic, I don't think the participants on the various online forums represent an accurate cross section of the appraiser community at large. You guys are not a good indicator of what everyone else understands. Your exposure to these topics far exceed the time/effort most other appraisers put into discussing the details of what we do.

 

[George Hatch]

I think they repeat the fundamentals to fill up time. If the new changes take at most 1 hour to explain, then how are they going to fill the other 6 mandatory hours ? These courses should be once every 4 years. If there is a critical change to USPAP, they can email it to all the appraisers who are registered.

I always struggled to cover all the materials in the course updates. I always ran the clock right to the end .