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CubiCasa
- Thread starter Dale Smalley
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RCA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
Interior wall width or you mean thickness. You’ve got me confused.
alebrewer
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Texas
I think you're right.
RCA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
$4.7 Trillion tax revenue for the US government for 2023. $4.700.000,000,000. Mindboggling - can any politician be trusted?
RCA
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2017
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
And every appraiser should know the single most important fact about a property to be exaggerated to improve its value is GLA. To say that third party inspectors do not need to be licensed and do not need to follow standards, should be a very big red flag.
djd09
Elite Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- Ohio
Recently, the floor plan court case affecting appraisers surfaced regarding copyright restrictions that can apply.
What, specifically, is this case about? How could appraisers be impacted by the outcome? How will technology companies that help create floor plans be impacted? Valuation Review sought legal expertise from an attorney who handles appraisal legal matters.
“The case about floor plans called Designworks Homes, Inc. v. Columbia House of Brokers Realty, Inc., is actually two cases that have been combined for appellate purposes,” Peter Christensen, founder of Valuation Legal told us. “It is a copyright case because federal copyright law protects the design of houses, buildings and other designed structures as ‘architectural works.’ Unless transferred to another person or to an entity, the owner of the architectural copyright would be the original designer, often an architect. In this case, the designer/builder of two homes is suing real estate agents and brokers who created floor plans of the two homes and then published those floor plans in property listings and sales information sheets.
“It’s important to realize that these floor plans were created by the agents themselves (or a contractor hired by the agent) based on their own measurements,” Christensen added. “They did not copy existing plans. But this can still be a copyright issue because an architectural copyright covers the whole ‘work.’ In other words, the copyright covers the complete design/artistic elements of the whole house. It’s like the house itself is the art or the book. The reasoning of a party bringing a copyright claim would be that the creation and publication of a floor plan of the house equates to illegal copying.”
Christensen said that the two original cases originated in Missouri. It was filed in federal court – where federal copyright cases are normally filed. Initially, the attorney said, the defendant agents and brokers won dismissal of the case because of an exception from the copyright law relating to architectural works that permits “pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of” to be made and published of copyrighted structures.
He added that the district court concluded this exception allowed the agents and brokers to make and publish floor plans. The plaintiffs then appealed. In the summer of 2021, the court of appeal – the 8th Circuit Court of Appeal -reversed that ruling. The defendants then appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, but in June of this year, the Supreme Court declined to review the case. Thus, the problematic ruling of the appellate court remains in place, he said.
Christensen gave an example of plans for a Missouri house being built back in 2010. We asked why did the agent create his/her own floor plan, and are they legally entitled to do that?
“One of the houses in the case was built in 1996. When the current owners of the house hired an agent/broker to sell the house in 2010, the agent created a floor plan to include in real estate listings and sales materials to help potential buyers visualize the house,” Christensen said. “Not until 2018, did the designer/builder file its lawsuit – 22 years after the house was built.”
Did that creation violate any copyright laws in relationship to the developer’s design?
“That’s the key question in the case,” Christensen noted. “The appellate court only decided that the exception for ‘pictorial representations’ did not protect the agents and brokers. Now, the case is back at the trial court level and liability will need to be determined because other potential defenses might apply.
The attorney also explained how ownership of copyright aspects are obtained, and what the exceptions are to the copyright law as it relates to this case.
“The most relevant exception that the agents and brokers believed protected them is in Section 120 of the Copyright Act,” Christensen said. “It says: ‘The copyright in an architectural work that has been constructed does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of the work.’”
What, specifically, is this case about? How could appraisers be impacted by the outcome? How will technology companies that help create floor plans be impacted? Valuation Review sought legal expertise from an attorney who handles appraisal legal matters.
“The case about floor plans called Designworks Homes, Inc. v. Columbia House of Brokers Realty, Inc., is actually two cases that have been combined for appellate purposes,” Peter Christensen, founder of Valuation Legal told us. “It is a copyright case because federal copyright law protects the design of houses, buildings and other designed structures as ‘architectural works.’ Unless transferred to another person or to an entity, the owner of the architectural copyright would be the original designer, often an architect. In this case, the designer/builder of two homes is suing real estate agents and brokers who created floor plans of the two homes and then published those floor plans in property listings and sales information sheets.
“It’s important to realize that these floor plans were created by the agents themselves (or a contractor hired by the agent) based on their own measurements,” Christensen added. “They did not copy existing plans. But this can still be a copyright issue because an architectural copyright covers the whole ‘work.’ In other words, the copyright covers the complete design/artistic elements of the whole house. It’s like the house itself is the art or the book. The reasoning of a party bringing a copyright claim would be that the creation and publication of a floor plan of the house equates to illegal copying.”
Christensen said that the two original cases originated in Missouri. It was filed in federal court – where federal copyright cases are normally filed. Initially, the attorney said, the defendant agents and brokers won dismissal of the case because of an exception from the copyright law relating to architectural works that permits “pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of” to be made and published of copyrighted structures.
He added that the district court concluded this exception allowed the agents and brokers to make and publish floor plans. The plaintiffs then appealed. In the summer of 2021, the court of appeal – the 8th Circuit Court of Appeal -reversed that ruling. The defendants then appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, but in June of this year, the Supreme Court declined to review the case. Thus, the problematic ruling of the appellate court remains in place, he said.
Christensen gave an example of plans for a Missouri house being built back in 2010. We asked why did the agent create his/her own floor plan, and are they legally entitled to do that?
“One of the houses in the case was built in 1996. When the current owners of the house hired an agent/broker to sell the house in 2010, the agent created a floor plan to include in real estate listings and sales materials to help potential buyers visualize the house,” Christensen said. “Not until 2018, did the designer/builder file its lawsuit – 22 years after the house was built.”
Did that creation violate any copyright laws in relationship to the developer’s design?
“That’s the key question in the case,” Christensen noted. “The appellate court only decided that the exception for ‘pictorial representations’ did not protect the agents and brokers. Now, the case is back at the trial court level and liability will need to be determined because other potential defenses might apply.
The attorney also explained how ownership of copyright aspects are obtained, and what the exceptions are to the copyright law as it relates to this case.
“The most relevant exception that the agents and brokers believed protected them is in Section 120 of the Copyright Act,” Christensen said. “It says: ‘The copyright in an architectural work that has been constructed does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of the work.’”
Floor plan case draws appraiser attention | News | Valuation Review
Recently, a court case surfaced relating to floor plans and the copyright restrictions that may potentially apply. Even if not a serious threat to individual appraisers, the case presents interesting copyright problems in relation to floor plans, whether drawn by appraisers or other...
www.valuationreview.com
Sadie
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Oregon
Nope still around. Google it and search on Fannie's page. It still comes up and they still refer to themselves as FNMADon't remember now if it was an official name change - although I think it was - but my point was that they don't use the acronym any longer.
alebrewer
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Texas
quick search of the fannie selling guide revealed nothing. I absolutely believe you, though! You're correct.
Dale Smalley
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Any time I measured every room and added it up I was way off from the exterior calculation.
- Status