CubiCasa

[Jayjay25]

I just saw my first bifurcated appraisal. Tax records indicated the subject was 4500 sf. Property inspector/Cubicasa scan indicated the property was 6000 sf. The appraiser utilized 6000 sf for the subject as “the appraiser utilized aerial measurements to confirm the findings and had no reason not to trust the 3d scan”.
Who in their right mind would trust a 3d scan with a 25% GLA greater than the subject’s. The only reason I can come up with is asking for an upgrade to a full appraisal would most likely result in loss of the assignment. Sounds like another prime example of control fraud in the appraisal industry.

 

[Sadie]

I just saw my first bifurcated appraisal. Tax records indicated the subject was 4500 sf. Property inspector/Cubicasa scan indicated the property was 6000 sf. The appraiser utilized 6000 sf for the subject as “the appraiser utilized aerial measurements to confirm the findings and had no reason not to trust the 3d scan”.
Who in their right mind would trust a 3d scan with a 25% GLA greater than the subject’s. The only reason I can come up with is asking for an upgrade to a full appraisal would most likely result in loss of the assignment. Sounds like another prime example of control fraud in the appraisal industry.

the appraiser used a aerial measurements? That is the red flag for me. Also, no due diligence to try and figure out why there was a 1500 sf difference. There are lots of valid reasons for a larger differential, but the user needs to know.

 

[RCA]

Desktop Appraisals of all types are not required to be ANSI. Maybe it is but I recall reading that somewhere.

Side Note: I watch Nat G quite a bit. There is this guy who explores mostly South America etc and he goes into large caverns/Caves. He uses Lidar. Lidar is impressive and works very well for him. Well he doesn't need dimensions, but it can give him Volume of the Cave and shows depth, width and length in 3D.

Per guidelines from Fannie Mae, they imply even if the floorplans come from a third party, they should follow the ANSI Z765 standard. They state they want everyone on the same standard. Fine. However, they also seem to think that iPhone measuring apps exist that are ANSI Compliant, which means they really don't have more than a clue about what they are talking about. They don't.

But it may be that they know the technology is possible - although not via smartphones, which have to be safe for the public to use and thus cannot use the appropriate Lidar frequencies.

To accurately measure a home with Lidar, you would need a device specifically for that purpose, - emitting light around 15,000 nanometers. You would have to be careful not to point it at people or to accidentally stare at the emitter. It would be expensive. And the question remains - could you use it around a family home with kids running around? --- I don't think so.

You could also use a surveyor's base station and rover setup based on GPS and radio corrections. The kind that lets you lean the rover pole on an angle so you could place the end at the corner of a foundation and still read it. Lecia has some of those newer ones you don't have to keep vertically straight 90 degrees with the ground. But they are $10K+.

I am sure they will come up with some solution - but it will be a ways off.

Cubie Case may be good for creating a rough floorplan - but you (or the third-party inspector) should go out and the exterior measurements - per ANSI Z765.

 

[RCA]

the appraiser used a aerial measurements? That is the red flag for me. Also, no due diligence to try and figure out why there was a 1500 sf difference. There are lots of valid reasons for a larger differential, but the user needs to know.

Aerial measurements can be very accurate. But what kind of aerial measurements? If he did nothing more than measure from Google Earth, then that is not reliable - because the Google photos may be old, - and in any case you don't have the necessary resolution to get accurate measurements (you will have overhangs and other obstructions). Also, you do have to do some interior measurements to get the GLA. In addition, while drone photos can be precise - you need ground targets or RTK to get that accuracy.

 

[RCA]

So there's another application out there - RemoteVal - which is geared more, I think, to a 'trainee' role being incorporated into the SOW. With the CubiCasa application - it is driven and performed by one person. With the RemoteVal application, it is driven by the appraiser (at his or her desk), but 'performed' by someone at the site - homeowner, trainee, Realtor, etc.

It looks like they have figured out that wall thickness is important. - If nothing else you could ask the appraiser to input the wall thickness manually. But, it is still not per ANSI Z765 - they state: "Tests show less than 2% variance from in-person measurements." My house is 55' on the front - so they are saying their method would be +/- 13.2" - when ANSI Z765 asks for 1" accuracy. Now can they make all the necessary adjustments for staircases and attic floors? That remains to be seen.

I still maintain they compare their calculations to property databases and investigate large deviations and ways to minimize problems. We have no idea what they are really doing. But, it is some kind of educated "guessing".

Aside from strictly following ANSI Z765, is it "good enough" for appraisal? - Compared to the kind of accuracy you get with typical appraisers? From what I have seen, many appraisers, even MAIs can't measure - and certainly can't draw accurate floorplans. So, there you go.

 

[Tom D]

remember fannie has every appraisal for the last 20+ years in it's system. i'm sure their system would question a significant difference from a past appraisal GLA, if one was done. but then i don't know what their tolerance level would be for a bi-**, if there is any.

 

[alebrewer]

It looks like they have figured out that wall thickness is important. - If nothing else you could ask the appraiser to input the wall thickness manually. But, it is still not per ANSI Z765 - they state: "Tests show less than 2% variance from in-person measurements." My house is 55' on the front - so they are saying their method would be +/- 13.2" - when ANSI Z765 asks for 1" accuracy. Now can they make all the necessary adjustments for staircases and attic floors? That remains to be seen.

I still maintain they compare their calculations to property databases and investigate large deviations and ways to minimize problems. We have no idea what they are really doing. But, it is some kind of educated "guessing".

Aside from strictly following ANSI Z765, is it "good enough" for appraisal? - Compared to the kind of accuracy you get with typical appraisers? From what I have seen, many appraisers, even MAIs can't measure - and certainly can't draw accurate floorplans. So, there you go.

I don't disagree. Of course the automated measurements aren't ANSI compliant - and they're not required to be. ANSI compliance is only required when appraisers are doing a physical inspection. And I agree as well that 2% could be significant, depending on the size of the home. Seems to me it's more about consistency that pure accuracy. IMO, consistency is more important than accuracy. After all - you're not measuring the comparables, right?

 

[RCA]

I don’t think you are uptodate on FNMA - they do expect everyone to be ANSI compliant!!! Think about it. Why would it be otherwise. Common sense!!!

 

[RCA]

I don’t think you are uptodate on FNMA - they do expect everyone to be ANSI compliant!!! Think about it. Why would it be otherwise. Common sense!!!

Also - and let’s be VERY CLEAR you can no longer assume that Cubi Casa or RemoteVal are ANSI compliant!!! So if you are relying on them, you de facto have violated USPAP!!! Oh yea…. Even if DW has told the forum otherwise.

 

[alebrewer]

I don’t think you are uptodate on FNMA - they do expect everyone to be ANSI compliant!!! Think about it. Why would it be otherwise. Common sense!!!

I really don't know why I engage you. You're so arrogant and absolutely sure you're correct - when, in fact, you're not. I don't think you are up to date on Fannie Mae (there is no FNMA any longer). Common sense!!!

From B4-1.2-02: