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Curling Comp Shingle Roof Question For Conventional Loan

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When an appraiser agrees to perform an appraisal that meets GSE requirements as part of the assignment conditions (which is typical of the majority of mortgage lending related appraisals, otherwise most appraisers would not use the UAD), then appraisers need to comply with the GSE requirements and better be familiar with the appraisal requirements listed in the Fannie Mae Selling Guide. Like it or not USPAP requires an appraiser to perform an appraisal in compliance with agreed upon assignment conditions and numerous appraisers have been sanctioned by state boards for not meeting GSE appraisal requirements when one of the assignment conditions was to produce a GSE compliant appraisal report.

Ok. I think I posted a bit hasty on the last one. You did not dodge the question as I stated. So, if you will, let me apologize for that accusation and phrase it another way.

I think you're wrong.

Now I am playing lawyer here too. I like to do that too. I wanted to be a lawyer, though likely would have been horrible at it, for many a reason. However, not because I have difficulties reading or grasping concepts.

So, I will concede some things here. I think it is possible an appraiser could get in trouble, by way of accepting an assignment condition that included a reference to the Selling Guide. In fact, that is exactly why I incessantly harp about sales grid adjustments, but that's another topic. I will concede that a state board may very well conclude the Selling Guide pertains to appraisers, and considering a state board is made up of usually appraisers, I think that may even be the likely outcome.

But legally, and when I say legally I don't mean a state board, I mean a criminal or civil case, how would the Selling Guide come into play? You did say required. That's a pretty strong word.

You say, unless I interpret you wrong, by assignment condition, appraisers are required to comply with the Selling Guide. However, take a step back for a second and consider which party the Selling Guide is written for. What is the Selling Guide anyways?

The Selling Guide is a component of the legal contract between FNMA and an originating lender. FNMA says, hey, we will purchase each and every loan you have, sight unseen, we will take your word for it, so long as, the loan meets all criteria set forth in the Selling Guide. And, if at any time we find out that you have sold us a loan that does not meet all criteria in the Selling Guide, we reserve the right to make you buy the loan back.

What is being overlooked is the relationship. FNMA does not have a direct relationship with any appraiser (unless of course they hire them directly, but that's not what were talking about). They have a direct relationship with the lender. Why? They do business with the lender, not the appraiser. In fact, the appraiser is supposed to be an independent, unbiased, uninfluenced party. That's part of what makes it all work,

What is supposed to happen, the plan if you will, is that a lender will engage an appraiser. Once the appraisal comes back, the originating lender will then test the appraisal for worthiness. How does an originating lender know what FNMA considers worthy? Well, FNMA spells it out in the Selling Guide, under the section called "Unacceptable Appraisal Practices". There are other protocols too, and the OP's question is handled there, which you have graciously helped us all out with - thank you. From there, either the appraisal is worthy or it is not. If it is not, the loan is not eligible for sale to FNMA.

Now, what originating lenders like to do, is cut some protocol corners and forward the list of Unacceptable Appraisal Practices, along with any other regs that may have been published on the matter too, to appraisers and then they say "Give me an appraisal that meets all these".

Are you with me so far?

A couple of things have happened here. First, the originating lenders, by sending us the "regs" under the guise of "assignment conditions" have undermined the process, by asking us to appraise to the regs, instead of using the regs to test the appraisal. The second thing that has happened, as you have pointed out, is that appraisers have become sucked into something they never should have been, and by that fun USPAP clause that says we must comply with assignment conditions, we may in fact as you stated be on the hook for all of them.

But the question I pose to you, if we are to play 2-penny lawyers, is it enforceable? If the Selling Guide and all of the announcements that have come along with it were never intended for appraisers, rather rules for underwriters, couldn't a clever lawyer argue the relationship dismisses the appraiser due to relevance and misconduct?

I don't think this stuff because I think I am a lawyer and came up with this all by myself - far, far from it. I think this because I had the chance to work on the FNMA buy-back project. That was where I learned an entirely different side that appraisers never know about. That was where I learned about what holds in court and what doesn't when it comes to the Selling Guide. Out of the billions, I said billions of dollars FNMA recovered through buy-backs, care to guess how many appraisers got sued? FNMA sued zero.

So, that is why what you said rubbed me the wrong way my friend. It is not the job of any appraiser to know the Selling Guide. Is it helpful? Of course. Could an appraiser be sanctioned by a state board for not complying? That could very well happen. Could an appraiser with a clever lawyer get out of it? I dunno. I like to think they should. But, you never know what a judge will judge.

IMO, the best answer to the OP's question is (LOL even though I did not say this outright either - sorry OP), ask the lender how they would like it handled. It is their responsibility in the end.
 
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"I dunno" is the wrong answer.

If you perform mortgage lending related appraisal that are intended to evaluate collateral for loans sold into the secondary market and don't know the Fannie Mae Selling Guide requirements applicable to appraisals, then you simply lack the requisite competence to perform such appraisals. Sorry to sound harsh, but that is simply the truth. If you are performing such appraisals, you need to immediately study the applicable portions of the Fannie MAe Selling Guide and familiarize yourself with the applicable requirements.

You call it harsh, I call it the wrong perspective. You posted twice before I could repost, so sorry about the over-lap there. I have rephrased my argument if you are still game. I understand what an assignment condition is my friend, no insult is necessary.
 
@fcrecords , those are appraisal requirements and guidelines given to the lender in order to be acceptable for secondary mortgage. Therefore, we have to follow those requirements otherwise our report would be useless to the lender, which would be a USPAP SOW violation.
 
@fcrecords , those are appraisal requirements and guidelines given to the lender in order to be acceptable for secondary mortgage. Therefore, we have to follow those requirements otherwise our report would be useless to the lender, which would be a USPAP SOW violation.

Wait what? I thought USPAP says the appraiser must determine the scope of work? LOL. You know I know all that stuff you said right Res?

Here are some thoughts to ponder...

I thought the purpose of getting an appraisal in a mortgage transaction was to obtain an opinion of value from an unbiased and disinterested 3rd party source?

Why not just have the lender do their own appraisal? The loan officer for instance, if the guidelines are really what matter most to FNMA, "useless to the lender" is the phrase you used right? Seems to me the loan officer could produce a supportable compliance document too no? LOL. (and maybe that is exactly where we are heading)

Why do appraisers even exist?

I love it when people start to quote USPAP. I like quoting it too. This is my favorite part:

142 The purpose of the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) is to promote and maintain

143 a high level of public trust in appraisal practice by establishing requirements for appraisers. It is essential that

144 appraisers develop and communicate their analyses, opinions, and conclusions to intended users of their

145 services in a manner that is meaningful and not misleading.

Call me what you will, but I think you have to take those lines into context when reading and interpreting all other parts of USPAP.

Let me ask you this question and a straight answer will do. What is the purpose of the Selling Guide?
 
Wait what? I thought USPAP says the appraiser must determine the scope of work? LOL. You know I know all that stuff you said right Res?
I think you do, yet your questions lead me to believe you don't.

You're right about appraisers must determine the SOW. If the SOW isn't correct, then the appraiser is to blame. And if you don't give them an appraisal that falls within their appraisal requirements and guidelines, then you failed on identifying the problem to be solved , thus failed on your SOW. You failed to produce an appraisal in a manner that is meaningful.

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If the appraiser agrees to perform an appraisal that is GSE compliant
Again, has the OP made us privy to the terms of the engagement letter? Does no one do direct in house lending appraisals where the lender is 99% of the time wanting an "as is" value only?

those are appraisal requirements and guidelines given to the lender in order to be acceptable for secondary mortgage.
Again, where did it say this was not an in house loan...You all are assuming a scope of work that was not stated, nor was the OP posted in the Fannie/Freddy/or FHA forum...

the appraiser must determine the scope of work? LOL.
The idiotic weakness of the SOW rule should speak for itself... Yes, you are free to speak your mind my friend as long as you agree with me. The sort of Antifa of Appraisal rule.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm the furthest from being a GSE advocate...they are NOT our friend. Even their forms are set up to make us the fall guy.
 
I think you do, yet your questions lead me to believe you don't.

You're right about appraisers must determine the SOW. If the SOW isn't correct, then the appraiser is to blame. And if you don't give them an appraisal that falls within their appraisal requirements and guidelines, then you failed on identifying the problem to be solved , thus failed on your SOW. You failed to produce an appraisal in a manner that is meaningful.

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I know. I get that. But in a circular way, that is why I ask them. Why do appraisers exist? What is the purpose of the Selling Guide? And to your post, yes, what is the problem to be solved for our mortgage clients? Do you suppose it's even conceivable it might be something other than opining a value? Let me ask it this way, what is the primary problem we solve for lenders - the most important one?

As you and Tim and myself and many others know and have pointed out countless times, we operate under many layers of "regulations". I put that in quotes because sometimes, those regs appear to conflict with each other. What do you suppose happens in a courtroom when things conflict like that? But on a more important point, what should we do when they do? I think when you get to one of those places, you have to go back to the beginning and ask the big question, what are we doing and what are we doing it for? I don't think there is always a concrete answer, but I think the USPAP purpose statement is a good compass. I think agenda gets in the way of the right answer all too often. These are why I get riled up when people say things like must and required and you should because, does anyone really know for sure? Two judges may very well come to two entirely different conclusions no?

So, why do appraisers exist in the mortgage industry? What was it about the industry that created a need for us? Are loan officers and homeowners entirely incapable of determining an "accurate" valuation of the assets?
 
Again, has the OP made us privy to the terms of the engagement letter? Does no one do direct in house lending appraisals where the lender is 99% of the time wanting an "as is" value only?


Again, where did it say this was not an in house loan...You all are assuming a scope of work that was not stated, nor was the OP posted in the Fannie/Freddy/or FHA forum...


The idiotic weakness of the SOW rule should speak for itself... Yes, you are free to speak your mind my friend as long as you agree with me. The sort of Antifa of Appraisal rule.

Damn it Terrel, yet again I had to go to google to understand your post - lol. Keep the deep coming.
 
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